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Massachusetts Pirates in NAL
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League


Albany is very small compare tobthe target marjets that are in the AFL
I wilk use Metro Stat Area population figures for comaprison

Phila. 6 million
Wash. 6+ million
Tampabay. 3million
Balt. 2.5-3 million
Cleveland 2.1million

Albany .9 million about the same as NAL's Leigh valley

And in sync with that Albany is not a large Neilsen market
No way this is AFL material - it ouldnt make it in the AF2 even

Even Baltimore is struggling with attendance.

When u look at it this way, i think its more clear.


If an AFL team was serious about playing in Albany (or Grand Rapids), the staff and owner would advertise the team's existence, and mention the weekend game times, low-cost tickets, and family-friendly atmosphere. Another way to stir up attendance is to sign a local athlete- a stunning college WR, DB, or QB- and attract attendance that way. Add in another superb athlete- say, Bubba Chapman or Luke Collis- and you've got a chance at over 8k in attendance... which will probably be less than Baltimore in 2018, but still good for an inaugural year of AFL play. (That's assuming the AFL plays in 2018, of course....)

In short, it's about getting attendance in the stands more than the number of people in the town....


Yes - its actual attendance. But bigger markets have more available people to pull from, and can charge more per ticket. The former is just population statistics and the later is demonstrated across the AFL and other leagues of all types. You are pointing to strategy and tactics on how-to, while I'm pointing out the raw numbers available to put those people in seats. And Albany is mot a big market to pull from compared to the current AFL teams and targets under the Butera model.


None of that really matters if you can't get the attendance... just look at the Brigade... there are over 2.5 million people in Baltimore, more than Cleveland, and yet the Brigade have smaller attendance numbers than the other AFL teams.
Another example: the Rattlers have been in Phoenix since 1992, back when the area was not in the top 10 of U.S. cities (Phoenix is now ranked 5th, IIRC), and yet the team has averaged over 12,000 fans in attendance over its 24-year AFL history... and more fans attended in 2017 than in 2016!


I don't disagree on Baltimore's performance per se but recall:

The Balt Brigade are the last minute addition to the AFL by Leonis and had little to no time in promotion. The Arena had some major issues based on posting on ArenaFan. Given that - the start wasn't bad - I'd expect 7500 a game would be the target this year at minimum. 2018 will be telling. The quicker the 2018 schedule comes out (CBA cough) the better.

AZ is getting 13k a game today, in a smaller league. That's impressive period. I hear what you are saying about Albany - but the numbers are going to be hard to make it work there.
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ArenaFanJersey
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Monumental was really building the plane while trying to fly it. Having been to one of the games I was impressed by those in attendance as they seemed into the game, had high energy, and a lot had Brigade merchandise on. 2018 would be the year I would expect them to hit their attendance goal of 7-8k which would be like 75% of the arena filled.
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Big Mike
 

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thisweekinworcester.com published the information about the Pirates that originated on Inside the Arena on October 19th. I noticed that thisweekinworcester.com has since revised their article to read that the Pirates will be officially announced in the weeks ahead, and they also noted that the part about Rick Buffington owning the team is incorrect.
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nalfootballfan
 

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement in about two weeks!

Last edited by nalfootballfan on Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement this week!


Let's hope, the AFL seem sets with 6 teams. IFL has managed a rough patch to get to 8 teams. The NAL has been late to the dinner table on announcements other than teams leaving (and I'm not concerned about the teams that are gone). And not that its bad news as long as the end result is a solid league for 2018. But it would be nice to hear some announcements.
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Big Mike
 

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement this week!
I hope they do. The National Arena League seems a lot more promising than the old Continental Indoor Football League; which was basically a hobby operated by two brothers in Ohio.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement this week!


Let's hope, the AFL seem sets with 6 teams. IFL has managed a rough patch to get to 8 teams. The NAL has been late to the dinner table on announcements other than teams leaving (and I'm not concerned about the teams that are gone). And not that its bad news as long as the end result is a solid league for 2018. But it would be nice to hear some announcements.
.
Curently, the NAL has 6 teams (4 confirmed, 2 unconfirmed) for 2018. Assuming Massachusetts is revealed this week and neither of the 2 unconfirmed teams (Monterrey because of the earthquake & Georgia because money) comes back, that leaves the NAL with 5 teams. I'm guessing the NAL would want to expand again (The Richmond tweet did mention Orlando, Providence, and Boston) to get to an even number.

My prediction is, barring craziness in the CIF-IFL lawsuit, 6 teams for 2018 (J'ville, Columbus, Leigh Valley, Jersey, Massachusetts, and Orlando/other southern market) with Monterrey postponing until 2019 and Georgia folding/moving to the AAL.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement this week!


Let's hope, the AFL seem sets with 6 teams. IFL has managed a rough patch to get to 8 teams. The NAL has been late to the dinner table on announcements other than teams leaving (and I'm not concerned about the teams that are gone). And not that its bad news as long as the end result is a solid league for 2018. But it would be nice to hear some announcements.
.
Curently, the NAL has 6 teams (4 confirmed, 2 unconfirmed) for 2018. Assuming Massachusetts is revealed this week and neither of the 2 unconfirmed teams (Monterrey because of the earthquake & Georgia because money) comes back, that leaves the NAL with 5 teams. I'm guessing the NAL would want to expand again (The Richmond tweet did mention Orlando, Providence, and Boston) to get to an even number.

My prediction is, barring craziness in the CIF-IFL lawsuit, 6 teams for 2018 (J'ville, Columbus, Leigh Valley, Jersey, Massachusetts, and Orlando/other southern market) with Monterrey postponing until 2019 and Georgia folding/moving to the AAL.


I dont disagree with the league going with those 6 as you say. At this point I hope they are able to do that. Orlando WAS heavily rumored 2/3 weeks ago or so. Things may be fine but silence leads to uneasiness. Last year the league released the schedule on 12/6 i believe so I think they still have 6 weeks to get this wrapped.

Greenboro NC was also mentioned and 'other cities' were too so we may yet see more than 6 teams.

I like the way IFL bounced back and solidified. Hopefully NAL does as well.
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wildthing2022000
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement in about two weeks!


I was going to call you out about it being this week but I'll let it slide since it must of gotten pushed back for some reason.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildthing2022000 wrote:
nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement in about two weeks!


I was going to call you out about it being this week but I'll let it slide since it must of gotten pushed back for some reason.


Very interesting - an edit from making an announcement 'this week' to 'about two weeks' - clock is ticking and they delays are adding up. Not a good sign. What gives here?
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
wildthing2022000 wrote:
nalfootballfan wrote:
The Massachusetts Pirates are making an announcement in about two weeks!


I was going to call you out about it being this week but I'll let it slide since it must of gotten pushed back for some reason.


Very interesting - an edit from making an announcement 'this week' to 'about two weeks' - clock is ticking and they delays are adding up. Not a good sign. What gives here?


I honestly don't know; maybe it's a matter of getting everything set in stone? The NAL is kind of weird....
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully, the NAL hasn't over promised and can't deliver. The silence is deafening. All I want as a football fan is indoor/arena football in JAX come Spring of 2018.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gosharks wrote:
Hopefully, the NAL hasn't over promised and can't deliver. The silence is deafening. All I want as a football fan is indoor/arena football in JAX come Spring of 2018.


I think that's the best way to say it. The rumor mill has even dried up. Clearly LV, Columbus, Jax want in. NJ seems to be taking tentative steps. Monterrey and Georgia are still big question marks and looking out. Orlando and Massachusetts are heavy rumored. Massachusetts would be a score and had a pseudo release, then didnt. Greensboro/and LI-NY were also mentioned.

If they can get to 6 solid teams - it would be a bit disappointing but sans issues, should be fine for 2018.

Alternatively, If problems arise you could see something radical I guess? - a down stream merger with AAL or sideways IFL-east division? Could LV and Jax even move to AFL (LV is Albany sized, it would need cash infusion, possibly another Soul connection; and Jax gets TB a local team, and 8 teams in league).
who knows. -
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
gosharks wrote:
Hopefully, the NAL hasn't over promised and can't deliver. The silence is deafening. All I want as a football fan is indoor/arena football in JAX come Spring of 2018.


I think that's the best way to say it. The rumor mill has even dried up. Clearly LV, Columbus, Jax want in. NJ seems to be taking tentative steps. Monterrey and Georgia are still big question marks and looking out. Orlando and Massachusetts are heavy rumored. Massachusetts would be a score and had a pseudo release, then didnt. Greensboro/and LI-NY were also mentioned.

If they can get to 6 solid teams - it would be a bit disappointing but sans issues, should be fine for 2018.

Alternatively, If problems arise you could see something radical I guess? - a down stream merger with AAL or sideways IFL-east division? Could LV and Jax even move to AFL (LV is Albany sized, it would need cash infusion, possibly another Soul connection; and Jax gets TB a local team, and 8 teams in league).
who knows. -


It could happen, but I wouldn't quite hold my breath. If the AFL gets a team in Charlotte, Orlando, St. Louis, and NJ, we might see the NAL go for Greensboro and Orlando... then there would be an NAL-AFL battle over fanbases in two cities... and that would get interesting fast.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
gosharks wrote:
Hopefully, the NAL hasn't over promised and can't deliver. The silence is deafening. All I want as a football fan is indoor/arena football in JAX come Spring of 2018.


I think that's the best way to say it. The rumor mill has even dried up. Clearly LV, Columbus, Jax want in. NJ seems to be taking tentative steps. Monterrey and Georgia are still big question marks and looking out. Orlando and Massachusetts are heavy rumored. Massachusetts would be a score and had a pseudo release, then didnt. Greensboro/and LI-NY were also mentioned.

If they can get to 6 solid teams - it would be a bit disappointing but sans issues, should be fine for 2018.

Alternatively, If problems arise you could see something radical I guess? - a down stream merger with AAL or sideways IFL-east division? Could LV and Jax even move to AFL (LV is Albany sized, it would need cash infusion, possibly another Soul connection; and Jax gets TB a local team, and 8 teams in league).
who knows. -


It could happen, but I wouldn't quite hold my breath. If the AFL gets a team in Charlotte, Orlando, St. Louis, and NJ, we might see the NAL go for Greensboro and Orlando... then there would be an NAL-AFL battle over fanbases in two cities... and that would get interesting fast.


I don't see the NAL going head to head with the AFL in any city, they would avoid that. And based on the lack of news coming from NAL, it looks more of a clean-house shape up year. And that may be the best scenario.

I do think the NAL wants Orlando - a major US city to elevate their league, however that may be wishful thinking.
They got rid of the weak/folded franchises (Dayton/Corpus) the extreme small market High Country Grizzlies. ie the fleas
Georgia is on the ropes and is no loss unless its needed to pad the # of teams. Monterrey is a shame to lose (though they may surprise resurface), but is a travel nightmare. Together with another Mex city and possibly a Texas team could work down the road.

It looks like they are targeting markets no smaller than Columbus/NJ-Trenton and trying for larger non-major markets. Orlando would be a big bonus.

Worcester, MA - looks like its happening (MSA pop size .9mm)
Greensboro, NC - (MSA pop size .8mm) outside shot
Long Island, NY - (2/3mm pop size) outside shot
Orlando, FL - (MSA pop size 2/3mm) - 50/50 shot

Again if they are having problems something more Radical may be in play.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
Monterrey is a shame to lose (though they may surprise resurface), but is a travel nightmare. Together with another Mex city and possibly a Texas team could work down the road.

Again if they are having problems something more Radical may be in play.


If the NAL adds in El Paso, TX, Juarez, Mexico, and keeps Monterrey; Could the Rattlers be in play?
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Last edited by TargetToad on Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you may be right 4th. Either the NAL plays 2018 with 1/2 dozen teams or something more radical takes shape (like your suggestion of a IFL/NAL merger....East & West Divisions...assuming IFL's legal issues are brought to a successful conclusion). Six months ago NAL expansion expectations seemed high (based on statements by NAL expansion committee) then those expectations were tempered. Now NAL bloggers are preaching to stay patient, big announcements are forthcoming. There is still time, but as fans sometimes patience is not our greatest virtue Confused It's November, IMO teams ready to go should have picked a league to play in by now or is that wishful thinking?
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Big Mike
 

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a message on the NAL Facebook page from Rick Buffington that says there will be an announcement on November 15th. I assume this is about the Massachusetts Pirates; I do not know if there will be any information about other NAL teams.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Mike wrote:
There is a message on the NAL Facebook page from Rick Buffington that says there will be an announcement on November 15th. I assume this is about the Massachusetts Pirates; I do not know if there will be any information about other NAL teams.


Was that deleted? I don't see it?
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wildthing2022000
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
There is a message on the NAL Facebook page from Rick Buffington that says there will be an announcement on November 15th. I assume this is about the Massachusetts Pirates; I do not know if there will be any information about other NAL teams.


Was that deleted? I don't see it?


Found it here https://www.facebook.com/rick.buffington.56 also Georgia's out.

http://www.nationalarenaleague.com/teams/nal-team-directory.html
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