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Massachusetts Pirates in NAL
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ArenaFanJersey
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds more like to me didn't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, which isn't a bad thing necessarily but isn't really what Bouchey was promising this past summer.

I went to a Worcester game when they had a team in the CIFL. This just feels and I could be really wrong that it won't end up well plus travel seems like it could be expensive.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArenaFanJersey wrote:
Sounds more like to me didn't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, which isn't a bad thing necessarily but isn't really what Bouchey was promising this past summer.

I went to a Worcester game when they had a team in the CIFL. This just feels and I could be really wrong that it won't end up well plus travel seems like it could be expensive.


Not much to go on and its all unofficial

That's really hard to tell, could be money, could be this was the best chance for success. Could be a really good issue deal.
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ArenaFanJersey wrote:
Sounds more like to me didn't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, which isn't a bad thing necessarily but isn't really what Bouchey was promising this past summer.


If you don't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, you likely don't have the money to make it work anywhere else, either.
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Firstnten.net
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wildthing2022000 wrote:
https://insidethearena.org/2017/10/12/massachusetts-pirates-join-national-arena-league-for-2018-season/

Apparently former AFL coach Rick Buffington is the owner. Not sure where he got the money from...


According to your own research JAWAD YATIM owns MASSACHUSETTS PIRATES, LLC him and i assume his brother who seems to be an engineer.

Yatim played QB in AFL china and I think the IFL. Take anything you read from "insidethearena" with a grain of salt. It's a wrodpress blog.

You have better research skills...
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstnten.net wrote:
According to your own research JAWAD YATIM owns MASSACHUSETTS PIRATES, LLC him and i assume his brother who seems to be an engineer.


Actually, those records don't necessarily connote ownership. They simply advise the state who's allowed to execute certain documents on behalf of the LLC. So they could be minority owners, organizers who brought in new owners with money, etc. Impossible to say who owns it solely based on what's there.
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Firstnten.net
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
Firstnten.net wrote:
According to your own research JAWAD YATIM owns MASSACHUSETTS PIRATES, LLC him and i assume his brother who seems to be an engineer.


Actually, those records don't necessarily connote ownership. They simply advise the state who's allowed to execute certain documents on behalf of the LLC. So they could be minority owners, organizers who brought in new owners with money, etc. Impossible to say who owns it solely based on what's there.


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Big Mike
 

Joined: 28 Mar 2017
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
ArenaFanJersey wrote:
Sounds more like to me didn't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, which isn't a bad thing necessarily but isn't really what Bouchey was promising this past summer.


If you don't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, you likely don't have the money to make it work anywhere else, either.
There will never be an arena football team in Boston. The cost of leasing the TD Garden would bankrupt the team. This is what happened with the Boston Blazers lacrosse team.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Mike wrote:
mactheknife wrote:
ArenaFanJersey wrote:
Sounds more like to me didn't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, which isn't a bad thing necessarily but isn't really what Bouchey was promising this past summer.


If you don't have the money to make it work in Providence or Boston, you likely don't have the money to make it work anywhere else, either.
There will never be an arena football team in Boston. The cost of leasing the TD Garden would bankrupt the team. This is what happened with the Boston Blazers lacrosse team.


Unless the Bruins' owner, Jeremy Jacobs, owns the AFL team, there is no chance an AFL team will work out in Boston... why Jacobs, though? He's the owner of Delaware North, the company that owns the TD Garden. Leonsis owns the Washington Capitals... maybe Leonsis invites Jacobs to a game and Boston will have an AFL team in 2019 or 2020?
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Big Mike
 

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.


Based on what I see, Ron Shurts is banking big coin in AZ. Attendance there remained strong and the costs dropped substantially in moving to the IFL. He is aiding the IFL financially it would appear because he really wants the gravy train to continue.

As far NAL in Boston, it may be to big for them right now. Your example fits.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
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Big Mike
 

Joined: 28 Mar 2017
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League


Albany is very small compare tobthe target marjets that are in the AFL
I wilk use Metro Stat Area population figures for comaprison

Phila. 6 million
Wash. 6+ million
Tampabay. 3million
Balt. 2.5-3 million
Cleveland 2.1million

Albany .9 million about the same as NAL's Leigh valley

And in sync with that Albany is not a large Neilsen market
No way this is AFL material - it ouldnt make it in the AF2 even

Even Baltimore is struggling with attendance.

When u look at it this way, i think its more clear.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League


Albany is very small compare tobthe target marjets that are in the AFL
I wilk use Metro Stat Area population figures for comaprison

Phila. 6 million
Wash. 6+ million
Tampabay. 3million
Balt. 2.5-3 million
Cleveland 2.1million

Albany .9 million about the same as NAL's Leigh valley

And in sync with that Albany is not a large Neilsen market
No way this is AFL material - it ouldnt make it in the AF2 even

Even Baltimore is struggling with attendance.

When u look at it this way, i think its more clear.


If an AFL team was serious about playing in Albany (or Grand Rapids), the staff and owner would advertise the team's existence, and mention the weekend game times, low-cost tickets, and family-friendly atmosphere. Another way to stir up attendance is to sign a local athlete- a stunning college WR, DB, or QB- and attract attendance that way. Add in another superb athlete- say, Bubba Chapman or Luke Collis- and you've got a chance at over 8k in attendance... which will probably be less than Baltimore in 2018, but still good for an inaugural year of AFL play. (That's assuming the AFL plays in 2018, of course....)

In short, it's about getting attendance in the stands more than the number of people in the town....
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
Based on what I see, Ron Shurts is banking big coin in AZ. Attendance there remained strong and the costs dropped substantially in moving to the IFL. He is aiding the IFL financially it would appear because he really wants the gravy train to continue.


I very seriously doubt any IFL owner is "banking big coin" or has a nice seat in the bar car of any "gravy train." Arizona's doing well by IFL standards in terms of attendance, to be sure, and the AFL-to-IFL migration obviously helped in terms of managing operating expenses. But given the years of comparatively staggering financial losses he and prior Rattlers' owners have endured over the years, I'm guessing it's more a case of "finally getting some of it (the losses) back."

That all said, the true test for Arizona's success in the IFL comes in 2018 rather than 2017. The Rattlers have always put on one of the best shows in indoor football, but if the drop-off in competition level between the AFL and IFL is as substantial as some here claim? Casual fans who noticed that during the 2017 season will be less likely to buy tickets in 2018.

I'm not saying there will be a drop in attendance in 2018, but if there isn't, it'll actually be yet another blow to the presumption of superiority some AFL fans have with respect to their league.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League


Albany is very small compare tobthe target marjets that are in the AFL
I wilk use Metro Stat Area population figures for comaprison

Phila. 6 million
Wash. 6+ million
Tampabay. 3million
Balt. 2.5-3 million
Cleveland 2.1million

Albany .9 million about the same as NAL's Leigh valley

And in sync with that Albany is not a large Neilsen market
No way this is AFL material - it ouldnt make it in the AF2 even

Even Baltimore is struggling with attendance.

When u look at it this way, i think its more clear.


If an AFL team was serious about playing in Albany (or Grand Rapids), the staff and owner would advertise the team's existence, and mention the weekend game times, low-cost tickets, and family-friendly atmosphere. Another way to stir up attendance is to sign a local athlete- a stunning college WR, DB, or QB- and attract attendance that way. Add in another superb athlete- say, Bubba Chapman or Luke Collis- and you've got a chance at over 8k in attendance... which will probably be less than Baltimore in 2018, but still good for an inaugural year of AFL play. (That's assuming the AFL plays in 2018, of course....)

In short, it's about getting attendance in the stands more than the number of people in the town....


Yes - its actual attendance. But bigger markets have more available people to pull from, and can charge more per ticket. The former is just population statistics and the later is demonstrated across the AFL and other leagues of all types. You are pointing to strategy and tactics on how-to, while I'm pointing out the raw numbers available to put those people in seats. And Albany is mot a big market to pull from compared to the current AFL teams and targets under the Butera model.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Based on what I see, Ron Shurts is banking big coin in AZ. Attendance there remained strong and the costs dropped substantially in moving to the IFL. He is aiding the IFL financially it would appear because he really wants the gravy train to continue.


I very seriously doubt any IFL owner is "banking big coin" or has a nice seat in the bar car of any "gravy train." Arizona's doing well by IFL standards in terms of attendance, to be sure, and the AFL-to-IFL migration obviously helped in terms of managing operating expenses. But given the years of comparatively staggering financial losses he and prior Rattlers' owners have endured over the years, I'm guessing it's more a case of "finally getting some of it (the losses) back."

That all said, the true test for Arizona's success in the IFL comes in 2018 rather than 2017. The Rattlers have always put on one of the best shows in indoor football, but if the drop-off in competition level between the AFL and IFL is as substantial as some here claim? Casual fans who noticed that during the 2017 season will be less likely to buy tickets in 2018.

I'm not saying there will be a drop in attendance in 2018, but if there isn't, it'll actually be yet another blow to the presumption of superiority some AFL fans have with respect to their league.


On an annual basis, I believe he is - he may have sunk costs in the form of prior years losses but annual operating and net income is what you look at here.

I agree that 2018 will be more of a test than 2017. Fans have now seen a full season of IFL. Do they like it as much as AFL? But assuming 2018 goes as well as 2017 he should be quite profitable again in 2018.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Big Mike wrote:
The people at Delaware North are only interested in one thing: profits. They are not going to invest one dime in an arena football team. There are people who operate sports teams that lose money because they enjoy it and they claim the losses on their taxes. Glenn Mazula did this in Albany and Indianapolis for many years. I believe Ron Shurts is currently doing this in Phoenix. This will never happen with Jeremy Jacobs and his company, though.

Do you think Glenn could possibly be part of any new group for the AFL's firebirds in Albany, NY
Glenn Mazula has stated on several occasions that he is out of the arena football business. Times Union Center general manager Bob Belber has said in several interviews that he wants the National Lacrosse League and the Arena Football League to return to Albany; there is no one who wants to own and operate an NLL or AFL team in Albany, unfortunately.


Albany is NOT an AFL sized market, period.

I gotta disagree with you there, Albany (and Grand Rapids) are above 100k with nothing else in town. Perfect for the Arena League


Albany is very small compare tobthe target marjets that are in the AFL
I wilk use Metro Stat Area population figures for comaprison

Phila. 6 million
Wash. 6+ million
Tampabay. 3million
Balt. 2.5-3 million
Cleveland 2.1million

Albany .9 million about the same as NAL's Leigh valley

And in sync with that Albany is not a large Neilsen market
No way this is AFL material - it ouldnt make it in the AF2 even

Even Baltimore is struggling with attendance.

When u look at it this way, i think its more clear.


If an AFL team was serious about playing in Albany (or Grand Rapids), the staff and owner would advertise the team's existence, and mention the weekend game times, low-cost tickets, and family-friendly atmosphere. Another way to stir up attendance is to sign a local athlete- a stunning college WR, DB, or QB- and attract attendance that way. Add in another superb athlete- say, Bubba Chapman or Luke Collis- and you've got a chance at over 8k in attendance... which will probably be less than Baltimore in 2018, but still good for an inaugural year of AFL play. (That's assuming the AFL plays in 2018, of course....)

In short, it's about getting attendance in the stands more than the number of people in the town....


Yes - its actual attendance. But bigger markets have more available people to pull from, and can charge more per ticket. The former is just population statistics and the later is demonstrated across the AFL and other leagues of all types. You are pointing to strategy and tactics on how-to, while I'm pointing out the raw numbers available to put those people in seats. And Albany is mot a big market to pull from compared to the current AFL teams and targets under the Butera model.


None of that really matters if you can't get the attendance... just look at the Brigade... there are over 2.5 million people in Baltimore, more than Cleveland, and yet the Brigade have smaller attendance numbers than the other AFL teams.
Another example: the Rattlers have been in Phoenix since 1992, back when the area was not in the top 10 of U.S. cities (Phoenix is now ranked 5th, IIRC), and yet the team has averaged over 12,000 fans in attendance over its 24-year AFL history... and more fans attended in 2017 than in 2016!
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