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CBA update?
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gosharks
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010
PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does anybody know who the AFL players union rep is? Whoever it is needs to stop the Soto nonsense. How did Soto become (6 years ago) the players negotiator? Did he volunteer his services? Friend of a friend who knows a player? Incriminating photos of somebody? A 1st year law student working pro bono would serve the players better than Soto. Soto is as worthless as a 6th teat on a boar hog.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gosharks wrote:
Does anybody know who the AFL players union rep is? Whoever it is needs to stop the Soto nonsense. How did Soto become (6 years ago) the players negotiator? Did he volunteer his services? Friend of a friend who knows a player? Incriminating photos of somebody? A 1st year law student working pro bono would serve the players better than Soto. Soto is as worthless as a 6th teat on a boar hog.
according tho the AFLPU website, which hasn't been updated since Jerry Kurtz was still commissioner, the player rep is Kyle Rowley
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Firstnten.net
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormjr wrote:
yes, a decent contingent of people are pissed/not pleased/not happy/disappointed with Soto.


Jim if you're putting this out there......Things must be boiling over.

time for a motion of no confidence.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstnten.net wrote:
stormjr wrote:
yes, a decent contingent of people are pissed/not pleased/not happy/disappointed with Soto.


Jim if you're putting this out there......Things must be boiling over.

time for a motion of no confidence.

+1
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stormjr
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


With an expired CBA is this considered a "cooling off" period? Is there any chance some players cease paying dues and negotiate directly with management or is that too complicated for everybody (Right To Work States may permit it)?
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ArenaFanJersey
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure why but I thought Colin Taylor was the player rep. At one point thought it was Ratternik too.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gosharks wrote:
stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


With an expired CBA is this considered a "cooling off" period? Is there any chance some players cease paying dues and negotiate directly with management or is that too complicated for everybody (Right To Work States may permit it)?
The problem is that Tampa is the only team in a right to work.
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormjr wrote:
As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


Nor should they. BUT... if even the slightly-more-than-casual fans of the league can do a cursory look at their operations and come to the conclusion that current circumstances can't support any significant changes that add to team operating expenses, surely you'd think the head of its player union could.
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Firstnten.net
Ironman

Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
stormjr wrote:
As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


Nor should they. BUT... if even the slightly-more-than-casual fans of the league can do a cursory look at their operations and come to the conclusion that current circumstances can't support any significant changes that add to team operating expenses, surely you'd think the head of its player union could.



+1
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Firstnten.net
Ironman

Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


Anyone who would think that fans have any say in this is delusional IMO.

The facts are the facts though. Soto is NOT helping negotiations. Anyone with 1/2 a brain could make the argument he's creating an atmosphere that's counter productive to making a deal.

And with each passing day that the league can't or won't move forward until there is a CBA/stability in the league as far as player personnel. This does nothing but hurt the league and more so the players. The "owners" will be just fine if the league folds...players not so much...
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstnten.net wrote:
stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


Anyone who would think that fans have any say in this is delusional IMO.

The facts are the facts though. Soto is NOT helping negotiations. Anyone with 1/2 a brain could make the argument he's creating an atmosphere that's counter productive to making a deal.

And with each passing day that the league can't or won't move forward until there is a CBA/stability in the league as far as player personnel. This does nothing but hurt the league and more so the players. The "owners" will be just fine if the league folds...players not so much...

I'll say it once again: #TT4AFLPU
Also, the CBA just be finished already so Albany and anyone other city/owner that wants to join in can.
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Firstnten.net
Ironman

Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
gosharks wrote:
Does anybody know who the AFL players union rep is? Whoever it is needs to stop the Soto nonsense. How did Soto become (6 years ago) the players negotiator? Did he volunteer his services? Friend of a friend who knows a player? Incriminating photos of somebody? A 1st year law student working pro bono would serve the players better than Soto. Soto is as worthless as a 6th teat on a boar hog.
according tho the AFLPU website, which hasn't been updated since Jerry Kurtz was still commissioner, the player rep is Kyle Rowley


That's pathetic the players union dollars as work...doh!
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stormjr
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Joined: 30 May 2007
Location: Clearwater, FL
PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Firstnten.net wrote:
stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


Anyone who would think that fans have any say in this is delusional IMO.

The facts are the facts though. Soto is NOT helping negotiations. Anyone with 1/2 a brain could make the argument he's creating an atmosphere that's counter productive to making a deal.

And with each passing day that the league can't or won't move forward until there is a CBA/stability in the league as far as player personnel. This does nothing but hurt the league and more so the players. The "owners" will be just fine if the league folds...players not so much...


I think the biggest take away, as fans, is that we don't need to focus on the immediacy of the CBA. Teams will continue - and are - to prepare and get ready for the upcoming season within every facet of the organization. Players that want to play will sign. Fans are just delayed in the composition of the team, but it will come.


----

But to your point on things crashing, yes, the players would take it harder than the owners.
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stormjr
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
gosharks wrote:
stormjr wrote:
I'm not sure how much water is in the pot, but the water is hot... does it boil over - who knows, probably not, but that is up to the players and their leadership... but FOR SURE there are those among that group that are less than pleased.

and I might add, people does not equal fans. As much as we'd like, fans are not a party to CBA negotiations. They have no standing, say or value to the the negotiations. That's just the reality of it...


With an expired CBA is this considered a "cooling off" period? Is there any chance some players cease paying dues and negotiate directly with management or is that too complicated for everybody (Right To Work States may permit it)?
The problem is that Tampa is the only team in a right to work.


Not an issue r.e. CBA
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ssnapier
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maryland is right to work also, and I DC is definitely not.
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to claim to be conversant about collective bargaining or union law here, but in reviewing some pertinent precedents from the "big four" sports, I'm beginning to see why no one within AFL or AFLPU circles is getting panicky about getting a new CBA done: because the terms of the current one, despite its termination language, appear to still be in effect by law.

I could be completely wrong about this, but some cursory reading implies that a CBA, once put into effect, remains in effect even if there's a termination date set within its text - and that only a formal intent to disrupt it (e.g., a player strike or AFL lockout) would actually bring things to a grinding halt.

On the AFL's side, the Albany publicity seems to imply that the league won't impose a lockout. Of course the team's not been officially awarded, but given the league's new-found penchant for secrecy I find it hard to imagine Albany's team operators leaking to the extent where if it didn't happen, they'd all look like idiots.

Meanwhile on the AFLPU's side, despite all of Ivan Soto's bluster and bull****, he's not going to call a strike vote, at least not yet. If there's unrest among the players, it's unlikely they'd vote to strike. And if they held a strike vote and it didn't pass? The players would be in a worse negotiating position than they would leaving things well enough alone.

Even with this slightly better understanding of sports labor law, unless there's a new CBA in place I'm doubtful there will be a 2018 season. Without it, I predict Soto tries to hose the owners by trying to organize a strike at the last possible moment before the 2018 season. And if he does? The AFL's owners hold a vote the next day to cancel the season, and/or fold the league.

So to review...
- Current CBA still (evidently) is in effect
- League can operate 2018 season under current CBA terms
- AFLPU could call strike vote at any time (but it'd be suicidal, no matter the outcome)
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
I'm not going to claim to be conversant about collective bargaining or union law here, but in reviewing some pertinent precedents from the "big four" sports, I'm beginning to see why no one within AFL or AFLPU circles is getting panicky about getting a new CBA done: because the terms of the current one, despite its termination language, appear to still be in effect by law.

I could be completely wrong about this, but some cursory reading implies that a CBA, once put into effect, remains in effect even if there's a termination date set within its text - and that only a formal intent to disrupt it (e.g., a player strike or AFL lockout) would actually bring things to a grinding halt.

On the AFL's side, the Albany publicity seems to imply that the league won't impose a lockout. Of course the team's not been officially awarded, but given the league's new-found penchant for secrecy I find it hard to imagine Albany's team operators leaking to the extent where if it didn't happen, they'd all look like idiots.

Meanwhile on the AFLPU's side, despite all of Ivan Soto's bluster and bull****, he's not going to call a strike vote, at least not yet. If there's unrest among the players, it's unlikely they'd vote to strike. And if they held a strike vote and it didn't pass? The players would be in a worse negotiating position than they would leaving things well enough alone.

Even with this slightly better understanding of sports labor law, unless there's a new CBA in place I'm doubtful there will be a 2018 season. Without it, I predict Soto tries to hose the owners by trying to organize a strike at the last possible moment before the 2018 season. And if he does? The AFL's owners hold a vote the next day to cancel the season, and/or fold the league.

So to review...
- Current CBA still (evidently) is in effect
- League can operate 2018 season under current CBA terms
- AFLPU could call strike vote at any time (but it'd be suicidal, no matter the outcome)

So you're telling me the 2018 Jacksonville Sharks roster will have Radenbaugh/Hippeard at QB; Ross (Benson's going back to Zona) at FB; Superman, Ings, Sims, D-Money, and SK at WR; Philly's Oline; Baltimore's D-line; Arvill Nelson, Colin Taylor, Alvin Ray, Beau Bell, and Goosby at LB; Greg Reid, James Romain, Duane Hollis, and TT at DB; Mark Lewis at K; with Clint Dolezel, Ron James, Touchdown Eddie Brown, Aaron Garcia and the Gruden brothers as coaches.

Adam, are the Sharks going undefeated in 2018?
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully, we don't relive the infamous 2012 "Olive Garden Incident" in which Pittsburgh fired its' players at a pre-game meal hours before kick-off against Orlando. The teams played on, but the following week Cleveland forfeited to Pittsburgh which I believe is the only forfeiture in the history of the AFL (I could be wrong about that....not totally certain it was the only forfeiture).
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any news/rumor on status of AFLPU CBA?

Other than I.S. retweeting every left leaning tweet ever posted, I don't see anything constructive on a CBA. Perhaps the AFL wants to have no CBA? Or at least one free of Soto at the top.
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