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Looks like the League owes Money in Portland
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craigwards
 

Joined: 20 Aug 2013
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:09 pm    Post subject: Looks like the League owes Money in Portland Reply with quote

http://www.kgw.com/news/investigations/arena-football-league-leaves-trail-of-unpaid-bills-in-portland/471663360
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nick p
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

“The people in Portland went above and beyond for the Portland Steel and they deserve better,” said Ron Callan, voice of the Portland Steel. The broadcaster said he is still owed roughly $500 from the league.
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DiamondThief
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.
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VooDooNut
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street
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DiamondThief
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.
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Furrey4
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondThief wrote:
VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.


Wouldn't say Leonsis buying in with two teams is a "false promise." Give it an off-season and then we can talk about how this business plan is doing.
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DiamondThief
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.


Wouldn't say Leonsis buying in with two teams is a "false promise." Give it an off-season and then we can talk about how this business plan is doing.

One owner buying two teams is desperate. Not really much of an accomplishment.
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Furrey4
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondThief wrote:
Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.


Wouldn't say Leonsis buying in with two teams is a "false promise." Give it an off-season and then we can talk about how this business plan is doing.

One owner buying two teams is desperate. Not really much of an accomplishment.


To be honest it just doesn't matter if you see it as desperate or not. It's massive leverage and possibly the AFL's last hope to attract owners like him, which is the whole plan. They got one big fish and are using him as bait to attract others. That's the whole point. Hopefully it works out.
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DiamondThief
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.


Wouldn't say Leonsis buying in with two teams is a "false promise." Give it an off-season and then we can talk about how this business plan is doing.

One owner buying two teams is desperate. Not really much of an accomplishment.


To be honest it just doesn't matter if you see it as desperate or not. It's massive leverage and possibly the AFL's last hope to attract owners like him, which is the whole plan. They got one big fish and are using him as bait to attract others. That's the whole point. Hopefully it works out.

Well of course the plan is to attract NBA/NHL owners. Everyone knows that. The problem is, and if you read Kyle Iboshi's report in the original link, you'll see that not paying employees and creditors is not going to do anything to attract those owners. In fact, it will deter them. Not even a "big fish" can counter Butera's mess. All I hear is "Give Butera another year." He's finished his third season as commissioner, and his tenure has been a miserable failure. One guy owning two teams does nothing to change that.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondThief wrote:
Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Furrey4 wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
VooDooNut wrote:
DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.


DT, good to see you, hope you are well

I've changed my mind on Butera, three years now, he's got nothing he needs to be run up the street

Just started my third year at college. Doing well. Thanks. I've been working mostly on my site lately.

Butera has done nothing for the league. False promises and outright lies. Time to let this gambler go back to the casino.


Wouldn't say Leonsis buying in with two teams is a "false promise." Give it an off-season and then we can talk about how this business plan is doing.

One owner buying two teams is desperate. Not really much of an accomplishment.


To be honest it just doesn't matter if you see it as desperate or not. It's massive leverage and possibly the AFL's last hope to attract owners like him, which is the whole plan. They got one big fish and are using him as bait to attract others. That's the whole point. Hopefully it works out.

Well of course the plan is to attract NBA/NHL owners. Everyone knows that. The problem is, and if you read Kyle Iboshi's report in the original link, you'll see that not paying employees and creditors is not going to do anything to attract those owners. In fact, it will deter them. Not even a "big fish" can counter Butera's mess. All I hear is "Give Butera another year." He's finished his third season as commissioner, and his tenure has been a miserable failure. One guy owning two teams does nothing to change that.


Simple solution: Pay the people owed money by the AFL 110% of what they are owed and replace Butera with someone who can actually do the job. I nominate Kurt Warner.
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afdave
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Simple solution: Pay the people owed money by the AFL 110% of what they are owed and replace Butera with someone who can actually do the job. I nominate Kurt Warner.


I don't know that you need to pay them 110%, but, certainly pay what was invoiced and owed, that at least needs to happen.

Although, this type of legal negotiations for unpaid bills with vendors and leagues isn't limited to just the "Butera Era" of the AFL... if I went and dug enough I could find similar articles for about half of the AFL's franchises across the entire history of the AFL I am sure... and it is not uncommon among leagues (especially smaller leagues) in general. And if we are going to kick people out of jobs because of shady business dealings and a history of not paying contractors and the like, there are a lot higher profile people in D.C. for that than people involved with the Valor and the AFL.

As far as "Give Kurt Warner the 'job'".... what exactly do you think the job is? I guarantee you that Butera has a better business rolodex built up than Kurt Warner... which in this day and age is most of what a commissioner's job is... to bring in owners, sponsors, and money. Kurt would certainly be a bigger "name" on the commissioner's desk, especially from a "football fame" standpoint, I don't dispute that. And that might bring in some attention and interest initially, but, that would wear off pretty quickly. Kurt was a great QB, in the NFL and the AFL. That doesn't mean you'd be a great commissioner, which is a business position. He is nine credits shy of a criminology degree from the Univ. of Northern Iowa, and has been pretty much just a TV commentator and celebrity since playing.

Now, if one is to believe that Butera is pretty much ONLY bringing his rolodex to the job, and it is mostly Leonsis, Gilbert and Vilek doing the "heavy lifting" behind the scenes to get new "blood" into the league.... then sure, maybe you'd rather have a "Notable face" like Warner in the commissioners spot. But, if you still want someone with some business background and connections, you are not going to go from Butera to someone like Warner.



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Reppact
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO the story was so one sided (anti-AFL) its crazy.

No reason to add Las Vegas in that report. Those issues were on THAT franchise not the league.

What about the issues with the Emmert ownership group... oh wait we just happened to no focus on him too so not to drag his name through the mud.

Typical local "investigative" reporting. Take it with a grain of salt.

Butera kept the league running with a plan that is sound. Makes NO difference that there were only 5 teams. NONE.
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mactheknife
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys, there's a much larger issue here: the league is broke.

While as commissioner Butera may be responsible for overseeing payments to creditors (I'm not sure how AF1, LLC is structured in this regard, but in the original AFL, the commissioner actually didn't have direct control over league finances), ultimately it's the responsibility of the members (teams) to kick in sufficient money to cover expenses.

In a single-entity structure, it doesn't matter where those expenses came from, they're nonetheless owed by AF1, LLC... and AF1, LLC is either ducking their financial responsibilities, or offering creditors 15 cents on the dollar to avoid being sued for what's due. That's INCREDIBLY BAD on several fronts.

It's bad from a credibility standpoint, because as everyone knows, as soon as people start hearing that creditors aren't getting paid by a league, they sense its imminent demise.

It's bad from a financial standpoint, because if you're already this far into a financial hole, it's virtually impossible to dig your way out - especially as would-be future creditors aren't likely to do business with out except on a "cash up-front" basis... which stifles your growth at minimum and more often than not accelerates your collapse.

It's bad from a competitive standpoint, as it's usually only a matter of time in such situations where players start getting the run-around on paychecks, giving them reason to bolt to other leagues.

And finally, it's bad from an expansion standpoint, as no one in their right mind is going to buy into AF1, LLC knowing that as soon as they do, whatever equity they have acquired has been diluted to virtually nothing.

This isn't Butera's fault - it's much deeper than that, and based on this report I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see AF1, LLC bite the proverbial dust.
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kc_brigade88
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't this during the time Jacksonville wasn't paying their bills too if I remember posts on here in the past? Same with the KISS? I can't remember fully but the KISS or Jax were like 6 months behind on payments and were about to strike or whatever if they didn't get paid. Then they got paid and everything worked out.

So, 2 teams not paying their bills to the AFL, and the AFL can't pay the team they own. I mean that seems pretty logical right? 2 teams pay the league and the league then puts that money towards Portland. I don't know how the financial stuff works for the AFL, but that would be my first thought.
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Firstnten.net
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The league has been mired in unscrupulous financial dealings since the come back. None of this is a indication of the league succeeding or failing.

Kurz had a convicted criminal owning the Rush. These discussions are ridicules IMO

If these things actually factoring into the league failing it would have ended years ago.

So tired of the same lame uninformed arguments.

Since the comeback when HAS this league had ANY credibility?

Answer: Never
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Firstnten.net
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kc_brigade88 wrote:
Wasn't this during the time Jacksonville wasn't paying their bills too if I remember posts on here in the past? Same with the KISS? I can't remember fully but the KISS or Jax were like 6 months behind on payments and were about to strike or whatever if they didn't get paid. Then they got paid and everything worked out.

So, 2 teams not paying their bills to the AFL, and the AFL can't pay the team they own. I mean that seems pretty logical right? 2 teams pay the league and the league then puts that money towards Portland. I don't know how the financial stuff works for the AFL, but that would be my first thought.


Rumor was the VooDoo were way behind in paying league fees. Also more teams than what you mentioned where "Rumored" to have not paid players in a timely fashion. To the point players where not gonna suit up.

Seems to me people like to pretend that these leagues are rock solid financially businesses that are run with German precision. Its the farthest thing from the truth across the board.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was rumored that Jacksonville stopped paying for a while; if LA also stopped paying, then that's another issue that makes the 2016 season look worse.

Another thing: Several players have already jumped ship to other leagues... Marvin Ross? Arkeith Brown? Allen Chapman? Lamar Mady? Derrick Ross? Anthony Amos? These are high-caliber players with increasing potential, and they leave for other leagues? It's for one reason:
They know that the AFL is not in ideal shape... when one team is kept afloat by seven other teams' payments, that's a bad situation. It's worse when that team folds, and then nobody owed money gets paid. (The reason I suggested 110% payment, BTW, is to compensate with a small amount of interest for the payment being delayed.) Then, the league offers 15% payment to keep them from suing? That's asking for a lawsuit.
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VooDooNut
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:
Quote:
Simple solution: Pay the people owed money by the AFL 110% of what they are owed and replace Butera with someone who can actually do the job. I nominate Kurt Warner.


I don't know that you need to pay them 110%, but, certainly pay what was invoiced and owed, that at least needs to happen.

Although, this type of legal negotiations for unpaid bills with vendors and leagues isn't limited to just the "Butera Era" of the AFL... if I went and dug enough I could find similar articles for about half of the AFL's franchises across the entire history of the AFL I am sure... and it is not uncommon among leagues (especially smaller leagues) in general. And if we are going to kick people out of jobs because of shady business dealings and a history of not paying contractors and the like, there are a lot higher profile people in D.C. for that than people involved with the Valor and the AFL.

As far as "Give Kurt Warner the 'job'".... what exactly do you think the job is? I guarantee you that Butera has a better business rolodex built up than Kurt Warner... which in this day and age is most of what a commissioner's job is... to bring in owners, sponsors, and money. Kurt would certainly be a bigger "name" on the commissioner's desk, especially from a "football fame" standpoint, I don't dispute that. And that might bring in some attention and interest initially, but, that would wear off pretty quickly. Kurt was a great QB, in the NFL and the AFL. That doesn't mean you'd be a great commissioner, which is a business position. He is nine credits shy of a criminology degree from the Univ. of Northern Iowa, and has been pretty much just a TV commentator and celebrity since playing.

Now, if one is to believe that Butera is pretty much ONLY bringing his rolodex to the job, and it is mostly Leonsis, Gilbert and Vilek doing the "heavy lifting" behind the scenes to get new "blood" into the league.... then sure, maybe you'd rather have a "Notable face" like Warner in the commissioners spot. But, if you still want someone with some business background and connections, you are not going to go from Butera to someone like Warner.



[/quote]

Why even have a commissioner?

His comp package is what, low seven figures a year?

Why spend that for these results?
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VooDooNut wrote:
afdave wrote:
Quote:
Simple solution: Pay the people owed money by the AFL 110% of what they are owed and replace Butera with someone who can actually do the job. I nominate Kurt Warner.


I don't know that you need to pay them 110%, but, certainly pay what was invoiced and owed, that at least needs to happen.

Although, this type of legal negotiations for unpaid bills with vendors and leagues isn't limited to just the "Butera Era" of the AFL... if I went and dug enough I could find similar articles for about half of the AFL's franchises across the entire history of the AFL I am sure... and it is not uncommon among leagues (especially smaller leagues) in general. And if we are going to kick people out of jobs because of shady business dealings and a history of not paying contractors and the like, there are a lot higher profile people in D.C. for that than people involved with the Valor and the AFL.
~
Now, if one is to believe that Butera is pretty much ONLY bringing his rolodex to the job, and it is mostly Leonsis, Gilbert and Vilek doing the "heavy lifting" behind the scenes to get new "blood" into the league.... then sure, maybe you'd rather have a "Notable face" like Warner in the commissioners spot. But, if you still want someone with some business background and connections, you are not going to go from Butera to someone like Warner.



Why even have a commissioner?

His comp package is what, low seven figures a year?

Why spend that for these results?


This is a good point, but then again these are busy millionaire who aren't going to do the work themselves - so they are going to have a commissioner. So the question is why pay so much if the heavy lifting is done by the owners? We really do not know what he has or hasn't done, but even if overpaid he projects a level of professionalism to the outside world. If you want to dance with millionaires, you can't bring the so-so sister to the ball.

Bottomline this is the direction they want to go. Leonis is clearly key as they NEED his 2 teams. If Newark or Newark/Albany come on board that gives them much needed league funding and if they are successful another selling point to big markets.
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billscarnage
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DiamondThief wrote:
Is anyone surprised? For a year, I listened to Adam claim that Emmert did not pay his bills. Now, we have evidence that is was Butera. It's completely hypocritical.

Emmert = Portland Thunder

Butera/AFL = Portland Steel

How is it hypocritical when they were two different franchises, technically. Emmert didn't pay his due which is why the AFL took over.

If getting paid was such a big deal to the people in the article and they have alleged proof of not getting paid (emails) then why not do the same as PDX Sportscenter and sue the league in small claims court? Seems like this could be an easy win for them.

DiamondThief wrote:
I digress. I am not sure anyone can be surprised. Butera is shady. I have said that since he took over. Knowing that the league is delinquent like this is not a good sign for the AFL's future.

Did you injure your elbow patting yourself on the back in this post?

afdave wrote:
As far as "Give Kurt Warner the 'job'".... what exactly do you think the job is?

Ambassador to the Arena Football League.

Reppact wrote:
IMO the story was so one sided (anti-AFL) its crazy.

No reason to add Las Vegas in that report. Those issues were on THAT franchise not the league.

What about the issues with the Emmert ownership group... oh wait we just happened to no focus on him too so not to drag his name through the mud.

Typical local "investigative" reporting. Take it with a grain of salt.

Butera kept the league running with a plan that is sound. Makes NO difference that there were only 5 teams. NONE.

Winner, winner chicken dinner.

mactheknife wrote:
Guys, there's a much larger issue here: the league is broke........

This isn't Butera's fault - it's much deeper than that, and based on this report I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see AF1, LLC bite the proverbial dust.

Good post. What ever happened to those bankruptcy rumblings last off season?

Firstnten.net wrote:
The league has been mired in unscrupulous financial dealings since the come back. None of this is a indication of the league succeeding or failing.

Kurz had a convicted criminal owning the Rush. These discussions are ridicules IMO

If these things actually factoring into the league failing it would have ended years ago.

So tired of the same lame uninformed arguments.

Since the comeback when HAS this league had ANY credibility?

Answer: Never

More winner, winner chicken dinner being served. Very Happy


VooDooNut wrote:
Why even have a commissioner?

Because every league needs a public whipping boy.
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