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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
When is Butera's contract up?

Is he safe?


It doesn't matter if his contract is up or not - if the owners want him gone, he'll be gone. All it'd take is a big enough check.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
4th&long wrote:
When is Butera's contract up?

Is he safe?


It doesn't matter if his contract is up or not - if the owners want him gone, he'll be gone. All it'd take is a big enough check.

$3.10
1 penny for every 2500 Arena Fans he has lost just from the teams in my signature alone.
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Big Mike
 

Joined: 28 Mar 2017
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:
predpop1 wrote:
Newark and Albany do not fit the model that the commissioner laid out for new owners so how can that be?


Newark would be owned by the Devils.... their arena in is Newark.

Albany is a bit like Baltimore... it will also be owned by the Devils. This "owning teams in pairs" IS actually a follow up to the "NBA/NHL/Facility" owner model, and might be also used by Tampa (Orlando?) and Cleveland (Detroit or Columbus?). If they go Columbus, I could see the Pistons doing Detroit and maybe Grand Rapids (since their D/G-League team plays in Grand Rapids).

Earlier this year the New Jersey Devils moved their AHL team from Albany to Binghamton so that they could lay off the AHL team's front office staff in order to save money. Why would they want to purchase an AFL franchise to play in Albany? That would require them to spend money to hire a front office staff and to lease the Times Union Center. I know that Times Union Center GM Bob Belber would be very happy if the Devils did this, but he also wanted the Devils to keep their minor league team in Albany.
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Big Mike
 

Joined: 28 Mar 2017
Location: Rhode Island
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:


If the Bruins start up a Boston team, they own the AHL team in Providence, so, that would be a good pairing for them to own 2 teams. It is an older arena, but, holds a nice amount for hockey/AFL (around 11.5k)..

The Boston Bruins have a player development contract with the Providence Bruins. They do not own the AHL team.
Boston Bruins ownership has a long history of trading the team's best players and receiving players who make less money in return. I find it hard to believe that they are going to invest millions of dollars in the Arena Football League.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great
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PhillySoulFan
 

Joined: 22 Mar 2017
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL
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Jntg4
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Joined: 15 Aug 2013
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Lutz, FL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).
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AFLNerd36
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Joined: 19 Jun 2016
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).


That would make both the IFL and the CIF balanced... and it would be a bit of an unusual first, to say the least.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).


That would make both the IFL and the CIF balanced... and it would be a bit of an unusual first, to say the least.

Well in the Calexit example, regardless of your opinion on Trump or anyone else in DC, California (Sioux Falls) would be better off in the United States (IFL) rather than as an independent country (CIF).
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mojodcat
 

Joined: 14 Sep 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
AFLNerd36 wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).


That would make both the IFL and the CIF balanced... and it would be a bit of an unusual first, to say the least.

Well in the Calexit example, regardless of your opinion on Trump or anyone else in DC, California (Sioux Falls) would be better off in the United States (IFL) rather than as an independent country (CIF).


Well, other than losing the easy day trips for fans and the team to Sioux City and Omaha there is very little downside.

Sioux Falls "verbally" committed to the CIF under the player restriction rules of 8 returning players from our final roster and then the rest of the roster was to be filled with players from non IFL teams and non final CIF rosters . Contracts came back stating 8 returning players with less than 2 years’ experience and the rest of the roster to be filled with rookies that had zero playing experience, in any league at any level.

The CIF and Storm agreed to an initial $ 10K Line of Credit which got changed to to a $150K line of credit in the contract. This change occurred when they realized how much it was going to cost to sue the IFL over W Mich and Bloomington. They tried to stick SF and WF with this Line of credit to play.

Source indicates QC and Omaha are for sure going to the IFL next year, SC and BIS will have to make tough choices. SC may fold as Bob wants out. CIF are very naïve and southern controlled. They will spend zero money at the league level and have no leadership. Simply a bunch of teams getting together and putting on a façade as a premier league.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
AFLNerd36 wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).




That would make both the IFL and the CIF balanced... and it would be a bit of an unusual first, to say the least.

Well in the Calexit example, regardless of your opinion on Trump or anyone else in DC, California (Sioux Falls) would be better off in the United States (IFL) rather than as an independent country (CIF).


Well, other than losing the easy day trips for fans and the team to Sioux City and Omaha there is very little downside.

Sioux Falls "verbally" committed to the CIF under the player restriction rules of 8 returning players from our final roster and then the rest of the roster was to be filled with players from non IFL teams and non final CIF rosters . Contracts came back stating 8 returning players with less than 2 years’ experience and the rest of the roster to be filled with rookies that had zero playing experience, in any league at any level.

The CIF and Storm agreed to an initial $ 10K Line of Credit which got changed to to a $150K line of credit in the contract. This change occurred when they realized how much it was going to cost to sue the IFL over W Mich and Bloomington. They tried to stick SF and WF with this Line of credit to play.

Source indicates QC and Omaha are for sure going to the IFL next year, SC and BIS will have to make tough choices. SC may fold as Bob wants out. CIF are very naïve and southern controlled. They will spend zero money at the league level and have no leadership. Simply a bunch of teams getting together and putting on a façade as a premier league.


Im not surprised if Omaha and QC head to IFL next year

Looking at the metro stat pop size these are larger esp omaha. Omaha only draw back is small arena.

Smart moves. Hope they happen

As far as SC and Bismark? Not so sure that's good

Witchita is the prize. Similar in size to Iowa
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mojodcat
 

Joined: 14 Sep 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:

Im not surprised if Omaha and QC head to IFL next year

Looking at the metro stat pop size these are larger esp Omaha. Omaha only draw back is small arena.

Smart moves. Hope they happen

As far as SC and Bismark? Not so sure that's good

Wichita is the prize. Similar in size to Iowa


Omaha pays far less in rent in Ralston than they would in the CenturyLink, and for what they draw it's an intimate setting.

Wichita would only be coming BACK to the IFL after the old Wild ownership folded the team after getting tired of losing and losing money. (see out CBA rant about the sport is broke)

SC draws consistent crowds of 2500-3500 which would certianly go up renewing the Sioux Falls rivalry, and moving to a league with a better national brand. The owner though is one of those "i'm the only righteous guys doing the right things, everyone else is out to get me and is cheating" types... he's burnt out and wants to sell, but we know how that ends.

BIS drew well in a smaller facility... moving to a league with better travel wouldn't hurt them at all. If they can justify the higher league overhead.

using Metro sizes is misleading as Sioux Falls draws 5000 pretty regular and had 9500 for the title game. Arizona's number are surely inflated. 13,000 in a building that seats 18,000 is ~75% full and I've watched that game replay twice.. there's NO WAY there were that many people there, the arena was at best half full... Omaha gets 2000 a game, and Wichita (KS) with ti's 570,000 MSA draws about that too.. it's about how the teams market and treat fans and players. Bemidji, MN (45,000 msa) did great for a year and then stopped spending money to market, and the attendance plummeted. Same thing happened when Green Bay and Iowa dropped from the Arena brand...they stopped spending the money to make the product what it used to be.

I understand the theory of the area being able to support a team, but at the end of the day the number of sponsorships and butts in seats depends solely on the teams willingness to work on placing a quality product on the field, and marketing the team so people are aware it exists.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
4th&long wrote:

Im not surprised if Omaha and QC head to IFL next year

Looking at the metro stat pop size these are larger esp Omaha. Omaha only draw back is small arena.

Smart moves. Hope they happen

As far as SC and Bismark? Not so sure that's good

Wichita is the prize. Similar in size to Iowa


Omaha pays far less in rent in Ralston than they would in the CenturyLink, and for what they draw it's an intimate setting.

Wichita would only be coming BACK to the IFL after the old Wild ownership folded the team after getting tired of losing and losing money. (see out CBA rant about the sport is broke)

SC draws consistent crowds of 2500-3500 which would certianly go up renewing the Sioux Falls rivalry, and moving to a league with a better national brand. The owner though is one of those "i'm the only righteous guys doing the right things, everyone else is out to get me and is cheating" types... he's burnt out and wants to sell, but we know how that ends.

BIS drew well in a smaller facility... moving to a league with better travel wouldn't hurt them at all. If they can justify the higher league overhead.

using Metro sizes is misleading as Sioux Falls draws 5000 pretty regular and had 9500 for the title game. Arizona's number are surely inflated. 13,000 in a building that seats 18,000 is ~75% full and I've watched that game replay twice.. there's NO WAY there were that many people there, the arena was at best half full... Omaha gets 2000 a game, and Wichita (KS) with ti's 570,000 MSA draws about that too.. it's about how the teams market and treat fans and players. Bemidji, MN (45,000 msa) did great for a year and then stopped spending money to market, and the attendance plummeted. Same thing happened when Green Bay and Iowa dropped from the Arena brand...they stopped spending the money to make the product what it used to be.

I understand the theory of the area being able to support a team, but at the end of the day the number of sponsorships and butts in seats depends solely on the teams willingness to work on placing a quality product on the field, and marketing the team so people are aware it exists.


Some of those numbers look inflated

And its not just raw attendance #s but avg ticket price
Cif Omaha pricing is way to cheap for a market that size imo

Time to follow and learn from az or better yet Iowa. Iowa is even smaller city but charges way more per ticket
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
using Metro sizes is misleading as Sioux Falls draws 5000 pretty regular and had 9500 for the title game. Arizona's number are surely inflated. 13,000 in a building that seats 18,000 is ~75% full and I've watched that game replay twice.. there's NO WAY there were that many people there, the arena was at best half full... Omaha gets 2000 a game, and Wichita (KS) with ti's 570,000 MSA draws about that too.. it's about how the teams market and treat fans and players. Bemidji, MN (45,000 msa) did great for a year and then stopped spending money to market, and the attendance plummeted. Same thing happened when Green Bay and Iowa dropped from the Arena brand...they stopped spending the money to make the product what it used to be.


I've checked the feed from the AZ games, and I can tell you that the arena could be 65-75% full; the camera positioning tends to face the less-seated areas of the arena. Also, the upper deck had fans in attendance, but it's not easy to see those fans due to the lighting and the camera angles (I saw a few fans in the upper deck, but only because they were moving). Not saying that it IS the case, but it most certainly COULD BE the case.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
mojodcat wrote:
using Metro sizes is misleading as Sioux Falls draws 5000 pretty regular and had 9500 for the title game. Arizona's number are surely inflated. 13,000 in a building that seats 18,000 is ~75% full and I've watched that game replay twice.. there's NO WAY there were that many people there, the arena was at best half full... Omaha gets 2000 a game, and Wichita (KS) with ti's 570,000 MSA draws about that too.. it's about how the teams market and treat fans and players. Bemidji, MN (45,000 msa) did great for a year and then stopped spending money to market, and the attendance plummeted. Same thing happened when Green Bay and Iowa dropped from the Arena brand...they stopped spending the money to make the product what it used to be.


I've checked the feed from the AZ games, and I can tell you that the arena could be 65-75% full; the camera positioning tends to face the less-seated areas of the arena. Also, the upper deck had fans in attendance, but it's not easy to see those fans due to the lighting and the camera angles (I saw a few fans in the upper deck, but only because they were moving). Not saying that it IS the case, but it most certainly COULD BE the case.


Az is killing it - raking it - and tgey arent cheap
Im talking more the smaller teams
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spiderfan_MJ
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
AFLNerd36 wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Jntg4 wrote:
PhillySoulFan wrote:
4th&long wrote:
On a couple other sites - Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL

STILL just a rumor - but would be great




Yeah on the Storms website it has them with the IFL


WITH Bloomington and West Michigan on it too, so it isn't leftover from before they left

So essentially, Sioux Falls did a Calexit. (Throw a fit because they didn't win, threaten to leave, backtrack, and end up doing nothing).


That would make both the IFL and the CIF balanced... and it would be a bit of an unusual first, to say the least.

Well in the Calexit example, regardless of your opinion on Trump or anyone else in DC, California (Sioux Falls) would be better off in the United States (IFL) rather than as an independent country (CIF).


Well, other than losing the easy day trips for fans and the team to Sioux City and Omaha there is very little downside.

Sioux Falls "verbally" committed to the CIF under the player restriction rules of 8 returning players from our final roster and then the rest of the roster was to be filled with players from non IFL teams and non final CIF rosters . Contracts came back stating 8 returning players with less than 2 years’ experience and the rest of the roster to be filled with rookies that had zero playing experience, in any league at any level.

The CIF and Storm agreed to an initial $ 10K Line of Credit which got changed to to a $150K line of credit in the contract. This change occurred when they realized how much it was going to cost to sue the IFL over W Mich and Bloomington. They tried to stick SF and WF with this Line of credit to play.

Source indicates QC and Omaha are for sure going to the IFL next year, SC and BIS will have to make tough choices. SC may fold as Bob wants out. CIF are very naïve and southern controlled. They will spend zero money at the league level and have no leadership. Simply a bunch of teams getting together and putting on a façade as a premier league.
Is there any truth to WF coming back?
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spiderfan_MJ
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Joined: 28 Jun 2016
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
Arizona's number are surely inflated. 13,000 in a building that seats 18,000 is ~75% full and I've watched that game replay twice.. there's NO WAY there were that many people there, the arena was at best half full...


Arizona is weird. That place always fills up after the kickoff.
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spiderfan_MJ
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Joined: 28 Jun 2016
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
Az is killing it - raking it - and tgey arent cheap

This is why I don't see them returning to the AFL. They've got to making more than they did before in the AFL.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Rumor: Sioux Falls jumping back to IFL Reply with quote

spiderfan_MJ wrote:
4th&long wrote:
Az is killing it - raking it - and tgey arent cheap

This is why I don't see them returning to the AFL. They've got to making more than they did before in the AFL.


Agreed spiderfan.

Look at the ticket prices at AZ games and the fans support was great. Even if those are tickets sold vs actual attendance. Who cares Az IS killing it. The league benefits from two big money generators (other is Iowa) that can assist other teams when needed as well.
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