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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 8:06 am    Post subject: NAL games week2 Reply with quote

LV at Col (18 to 50)was over pretty early. LV looked a bit better as the game went on by not by much as seemed like a usual or slightly less crowd in Columbus 2k +/-

http://www.wrbl.com/sports/columbus-lions-crush-lehigh-valley-in-season-opener-50-18/1121379338

Car at Maine (56 to 42) In Maine home debut... Carolina doing what many expected - winning. Good crowd (4932 announced) But Mammoths need to improve on the field. TV production was pretty good. But the Arena lighting needs to improve for a first rate TV experience - As well as the Camera angle being more field level vs pull back at higher angle (Which is Way better) - NFL doesn't do it, AFL doesnt do it why is CW-Maine doing it. It takes depth preception away, reduces the viewing area and the worst part it makes the already smaller field feel way smaller. Not a good look - fix it. Jax doesn't do it.

https://www.pressherald.com/2018/04/14/mammoths-bring-arena-football-to-maine/

http://929theticket.com/mammoths-draw-5000-for-opener-video/

Mass Pirates at Jax (63 to 56) High scoring game, MP scores with 8 seconds left to win. - Jax had a chance to stop MP and/or kick late FG to win but came up short on a blocked FG attempt. Crowd was less than past for a Jax game - 4500-low 5k's (my estimate).
Great TV Production overall, looked good with good lighting.

http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180414/brackett-massachusetts-deny-sharks-in-home-opener


Anyone hear attendance figures from game?
EDIT: 6,258 per below (likely no shows or inflated as looked lower but within reason)
http://www.telegram.com/news/20180414/massachusetts-pirates-rally-to-stun-defending-national-arena-league-champion-jacksonville-sharks
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Last edited by 4th&long on Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:17 pm; edited 2 times in total
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


I would say it definitely under desired targets - we are seeing the same in AZ. Could be that Bouchy is stretched with Maine and Carolina launches and less attention being paid on Jax. But both Jax and AZ are in year 2 of a move to smaller and less polished lower level leagues. Been saying for a while that what happens in these cities this year will be interesting to watch. Its not dooms day, but not good either. No actual attendance yet.
It was the first game, last year they started a 7.1k and ended averaging over 9500 in last three games. Let's see how season progresses - way better than Baltimore-AFL anyway.

As far as NY Dragons and AAL-Havoc joining NAL and this impacting that -
1) Havoc aren't going to be invited into NAL so that's not applicable at all
2) NY Dragons where did that come from?
Let's get a little grounded here before jumping 20 steps ahead over a game's attendance level.
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AFLNerd36
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


I would say it definitely under desired targets - we are seeing the same in AZ. Could be that Bouchy is stretched with Maine and Carolina launches and less attention being paid on Jax. But both Jax and AZ are in year 2 of a move to smaller and less polished lower level leagues. Been saying for a while that what happens in these cities this year will be interesting to watch. Its not dooms day, but not good either. No actual attendance yet.
It was the first game, last year they started a 7.1k and ended averaging over 9500 in last three games. Let's see how season progresses - way better than Baltimore-AFL anyway.

As far as NY Dragons and AAL-Havoc joining NAL and this impacting that -
1) Havoc aren't going to be invited into NAL so that's not applicable at all
2) NY Dragons where did that come from?
Let's get a little grounded here before jumping 20 steps ahead over a game's attendance level.


AZ is different; as I've said before, the Cardinals suck, but the Jaguars do not.

On the NAL possibly adding the Dragons, that was Bouchy securing the copyright in 2016... but nothing has come of that yet.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFLNerd36 wrote:
4th&long wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


I would say it definitely under desired targets - we are seeing the same in AZ. Could be that Bouchy is stretched with Maine and Carolina launches and less attention being paid on Jax. But both Jax and AZ are in year 2 of a move to smaller and less polished lower level leagues. Been saying for a while that what happens in these cities this year will be interesting to watch. Its not dooms day, but not good either. No actual attendance yet.
It was the first game, last year they started a 7.1k and ended averaging over 9500 in last three games. Let's see how season progresses - way better than Baltimore-AFL anyway.

As far as NY Dragons and AAL-Havoc joining NAL and this impacting that -
1) Havoc aren't going to be invited into NAL so that's not applicable at all
2) NY Dragons where did that come from?
Let's get a little grounded here before jumping 20 steps ahead over a game's attendance level.


AZ is different; as I've said before, the Cardinals suck, but the Jaguars do not.

On the NAL possibly adding the Dragons, that was Bouchy securing the copyright in 2016... but nothing has come of that yet.


The Cardinals and Jags really have no impact on the Arena attendance, but Jags one yr good after years of crap certainly isnt and the Cards at 8-8 isn't bad either - they aren't the browns. Either way its mostly irrelevant.
More of an impact is Market size and other top tier sports alternatives. Each city/team has slightly different challenges but the one constant is moving to a lower league and out of the AFL.

Agree with the NY point.
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: NAL games week2 Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:



Mass Pirates at Jax (63 to 56) High scoring game, MP scores with 8 seconds left to win. - Jax had a chance to stop MP and/or kick late FG to win but came up short on a blocked FG attempt. Crowd was less than past for a Jax game - 4500-low 5k's (my estimate).
Great TV Production overall, looked good with good lighting.


Anyone hear attendance figures from game?


I was at the Sharks game, 6,253 announced and that seemed correct. Poor attendance due to AA Jumbo Shrimp baseball game going on at the same time directly across the street and there was a concert going on (same time) at Metro Park (a driver 7 iron from Veterans Coliseum). Sharks gave the game away (like they nearly did against the Cobras the previous week).

Siaha Burley was out coached in the 4th qtr. Hugh penalty by the Sharks in the 4th qtr was the turning point of the game. 6 mins to go Sharks up by 9, 4th and 20 for Mass, incomplete pass which would have turned the ball over to the Sharks, D-linemen off side, automatic 1st down for Mass, 3 plays later Mass TD. After that Burley's ineptness and the stellar play of Mass decided the game. Great win for Mass.

Jax roster needs tweeking. Too many guys starting who only practiced for a couple of days. Looks like this could become the new norm (constant evolving roster, which is given in arena/indoor football, but thus far, in two games the roster turnover is greater than it's ever been). Appears to be a real horse race this year all the way to the finish line. This is good for the NAL.
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gosharks
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


As for attendance see my previous comments. Strong competition for the consumer dollar that particular night (baseball game and something else, presumed to be a concert going on in the same locale). If Tim Viens can acquiescence to the ways of The NAL maybe ATL Joins? I think Richmond is a better candidate. Maybe both join?

I think a depleted roster has contributed to a decline in attendance. Derek Ross is still a fan favorite, but when Tommy Gun left so did some fans. After games last year kids would swarm to Grady who was gracious to them.

The Florida Times Union (local paper) hasn't been paying much attention this year to the Sharks. The Jacksonville Armada (pro soccer team) get 3 stories to the Sharks one (Armada's league folded, they just joined a lesser league and they still get more press). Sharks need to give the FTU reason to get more press. That would definitely help with attendance.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gosharks wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


As for attendance see my previous comments. Strong competition for the consumer dollar that particular night (baseball game and something else, presumed to be a concert going on in the same locale). If Tim Viens can acquiescence to the ways of The NAL maybe ATL Joins? I think Richmond is a better candidate. Maybe both join?

I think a depleted roster has contributed to a decline in attendance. Derek Ross is still a fan favorite, but when Tommy Gun left so did some fans. After games last year kids would swarm to Grady who was gracious to them.

The Florida Times Union (local paper) hasn't been paying much attention this year to the Sharks. The Jacksonville Armada (pro soccer team) get 3 stories to the Sharks one (Armada's league folded, they just joined a lesser league and they still get more press). Sharks need to give the FTU reason to get more press. That would definitely help with attendance.
Offer Tebow a contract? I got nothing
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
gosharks wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


As for attendance see my previous comments. Strong competition for the consumer dollar that particular night (baseball game and something else, presumed to be a concert going on in the same locale). If Tim Viens can acquiescence to the ways of The NAL maybe ATL Joins? I think Richmond is a better candidate. Maybe both join?

I think a depleted roster has contributed to a decline in attendance. Derek Ross is still a fan favorite, but when Tommy Gun left so did some fans. After games last year kids would swarm to Grady who was gracious to them.

The Florida Times Union (local paper) hasn't been paying much attention this year to the Sharks. The Jacksonville Armada (pro soccer team) get 3 stories to the Sharks one (Armada's league folded, they just joined a lesser league and they still get more press). Sharks need to give the FTU reason to get more press. That would definitely help with attendance.
Offer Tebow a contract? I got nothing


Steak dinners that works. lol

I really do think Bouchy and company are S t r e t c h e d thin with the expansion teams under his mgt and also its year 2 in a lower league than AFL (as previously posted).
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: NAL games week2 Reply with quote

gosharks wrote:
4th&long wrote:



Mass Pirates at Jax (63 to 56) High scoring game, MP scores with 8 seconds left to win. - Jax had a chance to stop MP and/or kick late FG to win but came up short on a blocked FG attempt. Crowd was less than past for a Jax game - 4500-low 5k's (my estimate).
Great TV Production overall, looked good with good lighting.


Anyone hear attendance figures from game?


I was at the Sharks game, 6,253 announced and that seemed correct. Poor attendance due to AA Jumbo Shrimp baseball game going on at the same time directly across the street and there was a concert going on (same time) at Metro Park (a driver 7 iron from Veterans Coliseum). Sharks gave the game away (like they nearly did against the Cobras the previous week).

Siaha Burley was out coached in the 4th qtr. Hugh penalty by the Sharks in the 4th qtr was the turning point of the game. 6 mins to go Sharks up by 9, 4th and 20 for Mass, incomplete pass which would have turned the ball over to the Sharks, D-linemen off side, automatic 1st down for Mass, 3 plays later Mass TD. After that Burley's ineptness and the stellar play of Mass decided the game. Great win for Mass.

Jax roster needs tweeking. Too many guys starting who only practiced for a couple of days. Looks like this could become the new norm (constant evolving roster, which is given in arena/indoor football, but thus far, in two games the roster turnover is greater than it's ever been). Appears to be a real horse race this year all the way to the finish line. This is good for the NAL.


I did see that in FTU article and edited the OP above. Still seems a bit inflated but if its no shows that's legit.

I watched a good portion of the game, good broadcast BTW. Yeah that was exciting game and those attending will like what they see. As far as player practice issues - alot of this is linked to AFL CBA and late league start, also AAL grabbing a few in a mess of a league. Hopefully AAL folds or good players decide its a waste in 2019. But AFL timing was hard to predict.

I think all NAL play will improve over season and by week 4/5 of 16 the game play should be much better. Still an exciting game and MP wanted it hard and got it.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:06 pm    Post subject: Mammoth House pretty packed (video) Reply with quote

From local new man Jeff Peterson

https://twitter.com/JeffWGME/status/985303244934131713
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


The Jacksonville attendance was discussed ad nauseum in the group chat... there was a minor league baseball game taking place at the stadium, which evidently is literally across the street from the arena.

Why Jacksonville didn't immediately react to this conflict by rescheduling for an earlier start time is beyond me. I'dve had the start time at 1:05 that afternoon and used it as a helluva promotional idea. Game goes from 1:05 to say, 4:30. From 4:30 to 7, the Sharks are staging their first-ever postgame tailgate party outside the arena, with a locally known popular (and inexpensive) house band, all sponsored by (insert beer company or hot dog maker here). Then at 7, those fans who want to can go across the street and watch the baseball game.

You (i) relieve the conflict, (ii) get your fans in the door, and (iii) keep them around after the game, allowing your sponsors to ply their wares directly to your audience. That's a win-win-win. Why the hell didn't they think of that?
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
TargetToad wrote:
Wasn't J'ville supposed to get 10k? That's bad for the NAL long-term, let alone I'd they want to bring the New York Dragons (They do have the copyright) back and add the Atlanta Havoc from the AAL into the league.


The Jacksonville attendance was discussed ad nauseum in the group chat... there was a minor league baseball game taking place at the stadium, which evidently is literally across the street from the arena.

Why Jacksonville didn't immediately react to this conflict by rescheduling for an earlier start time is beyond me. I'dve had the start time at 1:05 that afternoon and used it as a helluva promotional idea. Game goes from 1:05 to say, 4:30. From 4:30 to 7, the Sharks are staging their first-ever postgame tailgate party outside the arena, with a locally known popular (and inexpensive) house band, all sponsored by (insert beer company or hot dog maker here). Then at 7, those fans who want to can go across the street and watch the baseball game.

You (i) relieve the conflict, (ii) get your fans in the door, and (iii) keep them around after the game, allowing your sponsors to ply their wares directly to your audience. That's a win-win-win. Why the hell didn't they think of that?

Go Sharks also discussed this above.

As to the why - possible they didn't think the AA baseball game was going to impact the attendance and were wrong or they thought an earlier start time would hurt attendance for an indoor event, or their contract with the arena has evening events or the AA game wasn't the reason.
Actually I think they are hoping it is the reason and could bea avoided.
Last year they opened with ~7100 and ended with 9500 avgerage in last three games. Its Florida and April is the mild season while June/July playing inside may be more appealing to the locals.

At any rate they have work to do and I hope they improve.

The game was a good one however !
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On AAL jumpers - I think Tim won't let the Havoc jump, the traval expense would kill then. Also their Arena is pretty small.

Richmond would be a better NAL fit, as they have good owners and publicity (Jim Jones). But their crowds are small, certainly not NAL worthry, even with a lot of promotion going on.

As for any of the other AAL teams?
The only other one I could see is the Doom, they play in a Big arena but also have bad attendance. Energy won't cough up all the traval money, and none of the other teams draw enough and arn't stable enough.
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4th&long
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SackThe_Back wrote:
On AAL jumpers - I think Tim won't let the Havoc jump, the traval expense would kill then. Also their Arena is pretty small.

Richmond would be a better NAL fit, as they have good owners and publicity (Jim Jones). But their crowds are small, certainly not NAL worthry, even with a lot of promotion going on.

As for any of the other AAL teams?
The only other one I could see is the Doom, they play in a Big arena but also have bad attendance. Energy won't cough up all the traval money, and none of the other teams draw enough and arn't stable enough.


The Havoc aren't going to be invited into the NAL - The owner Tim V is persona non grata. Richmond owner is a loud mouth too and now he's stuck after his bad mouthing and late ditching of the NAL after joining. He'll have to reep what he sowed and play in the subpar AAL if they make it to yr 2
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
As to the why - possible they didn't think the AA baseball game was going to impact the attendance and were wrong or they thought an earlier start time would hurt attendance for an indoor event, or their contract with the arena has evening events or the AA game wasn't the reason.
Actually I think they are hoping it is the reason and could bea avoided.
Last year they opened with ~7100 and ended with 9500 avgerage in last three games. Its Florida and April is the mild season while June/July playing inside may be more appealing to the locals.

At any rate they have work to do and I hope they improve.

The game was a good one however !


It was hubris, pure and simple. Arenas are rented on a "per day" basis; the Sharks could've played that game at 3 in the morning had they wanted. They gambled that going head-to-head with a meaningless minor league baseball game, they'd win the battle of attendance.

They lost. Badly.

If they're smart, right now they're looking at the baseball team's schedule and figuring out where other conflicts may exist - and planning exactly what I mentioned above, or at the very minimum, rescheduling their game in a way that avoids the conflict(s). Because if they got knocked out of the box by a meaningless, early season minor league baseball game? They're gonna get massacred going head-to-head a second time, because the people who went to the Sharks game this time won't the next unless they're die-hard season ticket holders.
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TargetToad
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SackThe_Back wrote:
On AAL jumpers - I think Tim won't let the Havoc jump, the traval expense would kill then. Also their Arena is pretty small.

Richmond would be a better NAL fit, as they have good owners and publicity (Jim Jones). But their crowds are small, certainly not NAL worthry, even with a lot of promotion going on.

As for any of the other AAL teams?
The only other one I could see is the Doom, they play in a Big arena but also have bad attendance. Energy won't cough up all the traval money, and none of the other teams draw enough and arn't stable enough.

The Kissimmee Bullfrogs are open to joining to NAL... Once I win the lottery (and even then, I'd probably be as the Tampa Bay Storm after I buy the copyright with said winnings)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why waste the money on buying the Storm identity? Just brand your team the "Tampa Bay Thunder" instead. Evokes the memory without the infringement, and you can build the story of that team from scratch rather than inherit the damaged perception of someone else's history.

A new car is always, always better than a used one, if for no other reason than you know who's farted into the driver's seat.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
4th&long wrote:
As to the why - possible they didn't think the AA baseball game was going to impact the attendance and were wrong or they thought an earlier start time would hurt attendance for an indoor event, or their contract with the arena has evening events or the AA game wasn't the reason.
Actually I think they are hoping it is the reason and could bea avoided.
Last year they opened with ~7100 and ended with 9500 avgerage in last three games. Its Florida and April is the mild season while June/July playing inside may be more appealing to the locals.

At any rate they have work to do and I hope they improve.

The game was a good one however !


It was hubris, pure and simple. Arenas are rented on a "per day" basis; the Sharks could've played that game at 3 in the morning had they wanted. They gambled that going head-to-head with a meaningless minor league baseball game, they'd win the battle of attendance.

They lost. Badly.

If they're smart, right now they're looking at the baseball team's schedule and figuring out where other conflicts may exist - and planning exactly what I mentioned above, or at the very minimum, rescheduling their game in a way that avoids the conflict(s). Because if they got knocked out of the box by a meaningless, early season minor league baseball game? They're gonna get massacred going head-to-head a second time, because the people who went to the Sharks game this time won't the next unless they're die-hard season ticket holders.


However if it rained (never happens in florida) they'd likely had the attendance. I still say Bouchy is spread thin and things just need to level out - could take half or all season but expect overall improvement by end of year
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4th&long wrote:
mactheknife wrote:
4th&long wrote:
As to the why - possible they didn't think the AA baseball game was going to impact the attendance and were wrong or they thought an earlier start time would hurt attendance for an indoor event, or their contract with the arena has evening events or the AA game wasn't the reason.
Actually I think they are hoping it is the reason and could bea avoided.
Last year they opened with ~7100 and ended with 9500 avgerage in last three games. Its Florida and April is the mild season while June/July playing inside may be more appealing to the locals.

At any rate they have work to do and I hope they improve.

The game was a good one however !


It was hubris, pure and simple. Arenas are rented on a "per day" basis; the Sharks could've played that game at 3 in the morning had they wanted. They gambled that going head-to-head with a meaningless minor league baseball game, they'd win the battle of attendance.

They lost. Badly.

If they're smart, right now they're looking at the baseball team's schedule and figuring out where other conflicts may exist - and planning exactly what I mentioned above, or at the very minimum, rescheduling their game in a way that avoids the conflict(s). Because if they got knocked out of the box by a meaningless, early season minor league baseball game? They're gonna get massacred going head-to-head a second time, because the people who went to the Sharks game this time won't the next unless they're die-hard season ticket holders.


However if it rained (never happens in florida) they'd likely had the attendance. I still say Bouchy is spread thin and things just need to level out - could take half or all season but expect overall improvement by end of year
What Florida do you 4th from? In Tampa, we get rain 5 hours a day from mid-May to early-August
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