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Re-Bbuild the Arena Football League
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SackThe_Back wrote:
I get that they need stable owners, but if the league is to expand then they (The AFL) need to change.

Cut the worth requirements down to 25 mil, have a $500,000 per season fee plus a 1.5 mil franchise fee,and experiance down to 2. It doesn't seem unreasonable, and if the AFL could market that they could probably get to 6-8 teams by 2019. If a mid-size market wanted a team badley enough, they could afford it.

Of course, some moron would probably screw the whole thing up.


I know you think 25 million net worth is "wow, they must be super rich!", but, honestly, you can have jokers creep in then (like I listed above, Vince Neil has a net worth approx. $50m or so). I don't want to charge the owners a "fee"... the idea isn't to bloat the league office... I'd rather them just "silo" $3 or $4 million per year or whatever the estimated cost to run a team in their market is.... that can be "siloed" with the league maybe, and maybe the league also takes 5% off the top for "central AFL expenses", but, I don't want to have it being like the Baker league office in the 2000s.
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mojodcat
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Joined: 14 Sep 2017
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the only reason the game has failed is that no one is actually making money. That is quite simply the only explanation.

Teams at this level have to get huge sponsorship dollars to even break even and most of these owners are doing this as a hobby. There's an acceptable loss level that they're comfortable with, and once the league gets to a point with gross expansion and increased travel, or deadbeat franchises they're done and fold up their check books and move on.
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SackThe_Back
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Joined: 05 Jan 2018
Location: South Carolina
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
only reason the game has failed is that no one is actually making money. That is quite simply the only explanation. 

Teams at this level have to get huge sponsorship dollars to even break even and most of these owners are doing this as a hobby. There's an acceptable loss level that they're comfortable with, and once the league gets to a point with gross expansion and increased travel, or deadbeat franchises they're done and fold up their check books and move on.

I like digging into the analytics of stuff, and from what I've read, i still can't quite figure out where most of the team expenses are from. Is it the Player Uniforms and gear, the field and posts, or the salaries?
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Lutz, FL
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SackThe_Back wrote:
Quote:
only reason the game has failed is that no one is actually making money. That is quite simply the only explanation. 

Teams at this level have to get huge sponsorship dollars to even break even and most of these owners are doing this as a hobby. There's an acceptable loss level that they're comfortable with, and once the league gets to a point with gross expansion and increased travel, or deadbeat franchises they're done and fold up their check books and move on.

I like digging into the analytics of stuff, and from what I've read, i still can't quite figure out where most of the team expenses are from. Is it the Player Uniforms and gear, the field and posts, or the salaries?
I think Mac went over it before you joined the boards sack, but it was the arenas and travel expenses.
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think player insurance can get pretty crazy as well. I'd put that right up there with Arena rent and travel.

Which is why "centralizing" as much as possible with the league office isn't a "bad" idea overall... if you can get better rates insuring 300 players across the league vs. individually making deals on 20 players per team at a time... duh.

Which is part of the issue with shrinking down to a 4 team league... you aren't even large enough now to make that worthwhile really.

But, outside of locally handling some marketing, fan interaction and ticket sales (customer ticket managers, etc) and some other things, a lot of things make sense to do at a league level for discounted rates. Players playing, coaches coaching and support staff locally for that are really the only things the team should need to do individually themselves... everything else they just pay their equal share to the league to take care of. Obviously, they can complain if they don't think the league is doing a good job, getting as much of a discount as they should, etc. But, it should be a cost savings vs. doing it themselves.
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mojodcat
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Joined: 14 Sep 2017
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Workers Comp
Travel
Housing
Meals (?)
music fees
arena leases
up front capital for merch
league dues
staff salary
player salary
teams share of broadcasting fees

For the sake of argument lets say zero sponsorship dollars.
10,000 PAID (not that many are ever actually paid) at a $20 average ticket and a 14 game season renders 1.4 million in revenue.

$50,000 goes to workers comp
35,000-$70,000 ($5000-$10,000 per game)
$15K per team flight
$5 per team bus trip
$235,000 in players salary ($800*21*14)
$90,000 staff salary
$30,000 in housing (10 apartments*$500 a month *6 months)

that's easily $530K in expenses and there's a ton you haven't paid for yet, like paid for a practice facility, or equipment and consumables (tape, water bottles, etc) and those paid numbers are really really high best case scenario wishful thinking
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mojodcat wrote:
Workers Comp
Travel
Housing
Meals (?)
music fees
arena leases
up front capital for merch
league dues
staff salary
player salary
teams share of broadcasting fees

For the sake of argument lets say zero sponsorship dollars.
10,000 PAID (not that many are ever actually paid) at a $20 average ticket and a 14 game season renders 1.4 million in revenue.

$50,000 goes to workers comp
35,000-$70,000 ($5000-$10,000 per game)
$15K per team flight
$5 per team bus trip
$235,000 in players salary ($800*21*14)
$90,000 staff salary
$30,000 in housing (10 apartments*$500 a month *6 months)

that's easily $530K in expenses and there's a ton you haven't paid for yet, like paid for a practice facility, or equipment and consumables (tape, water bottles, etc) and those paid numbers are really really high best case scenario wishful thinking


Yeah, 10k PAID on average per game... MAYBE some AFL teams in the 2000s actually achieved that (Colorado, Philly, etc).... nobody does that now.

I'd say "plan" on 4k fully paid at an average of $15 (at what someone who is "serious" at the AFL should have... these other leagues, obviously, 2-3k, or even lower is likely).... that is $60k per game, and with 6 home games, that is only $360k in ticket revenue... below your number above. Which is why this is a "tough sell" right now. Obviously, there are sponsorship dollars you should have, but, some sponsorships are not done for dollars but are done for "in kind" services (ie, you do some service for the team in exchange for your business in our In-arena game programs and a sideline banner). That obviously gets your expenses down, but, you aren't making that money for the banner either.
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ssnapier
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Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Hagerstown, MD
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where on earth would you find $500 a month housing in DC or Baltimore. That will get a really nice parking spot, but nothing you could live in.
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssnapier wrote:
Where on earth would you find $500 a month housing in DC or Baltimore. That will get a really nice parking spot, but nothing you could live in.


https://www.zillow.com/homes/for_rent/Baltimore-MD/house,condo,apartment_duplex,mobile,townhouse_type/5Xm27m_bldg/39.282272,-76.68506_ll/3523_rid/0-127609_price/0-500_mp/39.344453,-76.588355,39.264224,-76.698218_rect/12_zm/

Certainly nothing awesome, but, its a roof over their head... you have a shuttle bus that comes and gets all the players for practices/game day/airport trips.
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mojodcat
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Joined: 14 Sep 2017
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ssnapier wrote:
Where on earth would you find $500 a month housing in DC or Baltimore. That will get a really nice parking spot, but nothing you could live in.


further solidifies my point.. perhaps a monthly rate on some fleabag motel... who knows... there's not any money in this sport, clearly..
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:
Obviously, there are sponsorship dollars you should have, but, some sponsorships are not done for dollars but are done for "in kind" services (ie, you do some service for the team in exchange for your business in our In-arena game programs and a sideline banner). That obviously gets your expenses down, but, you aren't making that money for the banner either.


Thanks to my background in broadcasting, I'll say this much: if I owned a professional sports franchise at this level, I'd make deals for "promotional consideration of equal value" every day of the week and twice on Sunday, save circumstances where it's absolutely imperative that they generate actual revenue.

Have an apartment complex with 400 units?
Let me lease 15 of them in exchange for promotional consideration, so my players and coaches can live there.

Have a hotel near the airport?
I have visiting teams that need somewhere to stay when we're at home. Give me a dozen rooms along with a conference facility for them to use if they need it, and I'll gladly give you promotional consideration of equal - no, greater - value.

What's the greater promotional value? Whatever I think will get you to agree to it. And it really doesn't matter - my outlay in providing it is going to be nominal compared to the benefit I'm going to receive in not having those bills to pay on an ongoing basis.

You want a banner inside the arena? Hell, I'll festoon the upper tier's facade with them for you.

In-game ad mentions? I'll give you four a game as part of a regular rotation, no problem!

Full page media guide ad? Full page game program ad? Sure! I'm going to have to shell out for those anyway; I'll just cut the font size on the content fans actually are getting them to see so I can squeeze your ad in.

Want to call yourself the official whatever of the BadArena FootballNames? As long as I haven't already pitched that notion to some other sucker... why not?

In broadcasting, as with sporting event promotional sponsorships, there is no way to accurately assess ROI (return on investment). None. Anyone who says they can is a liar. There are too many invariables, and you're selling an intangible commodity. Plus, the more of these "trade" deals I make, the more possible it is that someone comes to me and actually looks to give me money for similar exposure.
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ssnapier
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Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Hagerstown, MD
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure I remember seeing something about apartments that were owned by Monumental being provided to the players are basically no cost. It was in one of the pre-season videos last year on the Monumental Network.

I may be wrong there, but it sounds right. Monumental also had a housing referral/ locator service as one of their sponsors for both teams. I do not recall any real estate sponsors, but I was much more focused on the game than the sponsors.
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