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What Would It Take to Say the AFL is Back...
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Rwlms
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sportsrankings wrote:
Without starting a new topic. Let's say you took over the AFL tomorrow. What changes are making?

Do you need to get on TV?
Iron-man?
6 or 7 players instead?


First thing I'd do is fire anyone who mentioned "TV Deal". Fill the damn arena and be happy they are playing. All I see from these posts are "TV Deal" - no one watched the AFL 2.0 on TV - no one! And before the "I watched it" posts, you don't pay to be on TV so that a couple of thousand super fans can watch the game. National TV is death to this league.
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The TV deal can bring you other money though.

iE, my guess is the NET10 naming rights deal paid for most if not all of the TV production costs... And without a national TV deal they were not being a top line league sponsor.

That is the only way it is worth it... If either the network or a sponsor is covering the production costs.
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:
That is the only way it is worth it... If either the network or a sponsor is covering the production costs.


Agreed. If your on-field/court/ice product doesn't have enough interest from a broadcaster that they're willing to (i) pay all production costs associated with televising games, (ii) grant the league copyright to the broadcasts, and (iii) provide an additional rights fee, even a nominal one, showing that the television package has value? You don't have a sports entertainment product that belongs on television.
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Rwlms
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Joined: 11 Feb 2010
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

afdave wrote:
The TV deal can bring you other money though.

iE, my guess is the NET10 naming rights deal paid for most if not all of the TV production costs... And without a national TV deal they were not being a top line league sponsor.

That is the only way it is worth it... If either the network or a sponsor is covering the production costs.


So they paid an amount of money that brought in the same amount of money - guess they should have called it NET0. Jerry was obsessed with TV deals too, just think about that.
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rwlms wrote:
afdave wrote:
The TV deal can bring you other money though.

iE, my guess is the NET10 naming rights deal paid for most if not all of the TV production costs... And without a national TV deal they were not being a top line league sponsor.

That is the only way it is worth it... If either the network or a sponsor is covering the production costs.


So they paid an amount of money that brought in the same amount of money - guess they should have called it NET0. Jerry was obsessed with TV deals too, just think about that.


But, if it gets you 3 hours on TV every week, then, it is probably worth the even "swap".

"Net 10 AFL" and you have national TV, or
"AFL" and no national TV.

I was hopeful for "DraftKings AFL" last year or this year, but, at this point there isn't much of anything left.
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sportsrankings
 

Joined: 04 Mar 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?

Rent too high? Workers comp?
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sportsrankings wrote:
I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?

Rent too high? Workers comp?

Denver is too far west right now (although the IFL did have the crush last year), and I'm guessing the Blue Jackets owner wants nothing to do with this clownshow (Arena losing teams, IFL getting sued by CIF where an CIF owner is the mayor.
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4th&long
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Joined: 05 May 2017
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: What Would It Take to Say the AFL is Back... Reply with quote

ArenaFanJersey wrote:
I am on the side of fans who are optimistic about the Butera era and where he will lead the league. I was curious for fans who are on both sides of that aisle what would it take to say the AFL is back?


For me I would say 12 teams averaging out to 11-12k attendance, a better national TV deal with the digital component, and some mainstream corporate partners such as (just throwing an example out there) Southwest Airlines or HP.


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sportsrankings
 

Joined: 04 Mar 2015
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I set up a survey for a hypothetical indoor/arena league. Please answer as truthful as possible, I'll be sure to share the results with everyone after completion. See link below (short google URL)

https://goo.gl/forms/2J1LazawXt7AquD92
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famicommander
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sportsrankings wrote:
I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?

Rent too high? Workers comp?

Denver is a fantastic sports town but the reality is the metro area has less than 3 million people in it.

We already have:
Denver Broncos (NFL) - the undisputed king of the city. sold out every game since 1970.

Colorado Rockies (MLB) - have drawn between 32,000 and 37,000 fans per game over ten straight years

Denver Nuggets (NBA) - actually in a bit of a down period attendance wise but still a popular team. mostly attendance is down due to the team being awful.

Colorado Avalanche (NHL) - also in a down period, but at one point sold out every game for like 14 straight years. last year they were last in the NHL so it's not hard to see why they're not selling out.

Colorado Rapids (MLS) - soccer isn't even that popular here and the Rapids are awful but they still draw about 14,000-16,000 per game. Founding franchise of the league as well.

Colorado Mammoth (NLL) - have never averaged fewer than 14,500 fans per game, despite a ten year playoff victory drought. There were a few seasons that they were the highest drawing tenant per game in the arena, which housed the Nuggets, Avs, and Colorado Crush. Led the NLL in attendance 12 times in 15 seasons.

Denver Outlaws (MLL) - led the league in attendance every year, capable of drawing 30,000 for 4th of July Fireworks games even head to head with the Rockies and Rapids.

Plus we have multiple division I college teams in and around the metro area. Colorado (football, basketball), Colorado State (football, basketball), Air Force (football, basketball, lacrosse, hockey), Denver (hockey, lacrosse, basketball), etc.

Denver is already the smallest city with a team in each of the big 4 leagues, and plus they established teams in other leagues with their own followings and all the college teams.

If the AFL came back to Denver I'd be first in line for tickets, but it's not hard to see why there are no prospects. The league is in dire shape and there are no teams anywhere close to here geographically.
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Firstnten.net
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What Would It Take to Say the AFL is Back... Reply with quote

ArenaFanJersey wrote:
I am on the side of fans who are optimistic about the Butera


I think you maybe the only one. Most fans here aside from the NAL IFL shills where taking a wait and see approach with the hope of progress despite all of the obvious issues.

If they play with four teams next year aren't they technically back?

I'm still getting Special ticket offers from the Soul with a Feb 15th expiration date.

Whatever that means....
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sportsrankings wrote:
I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?


That was then. This is now. Both Columbus and Denver (along with I've forgotten how many other cities) played host to at least two AFL/AFL 2.0 franchises.

When as a league you've abandoned a market once, you probably haven't poisoned its residents about your league to a point where a replacement franchise would automatically fail (e.g., the original Washington Senators being immediately replaced by the expansion version; the Kansas City A's being replaced after a few years absence by the Royals; the Philadelphia Warriors being replaced by the 76'ers).

But when you've abandoned a market twice within a generation's time (e.g., the second Senators franchise bolting for the Dallas area; pro football fans in the St. Louis area right now), potential fans in that market aren't nearly as apt to welcome a new team with open arms and wallets. You have to let a generation pass (as baseball did with Washington) before you can test the viability in that market... to let the prior wounds heal, so to speak.
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Lutz, FL
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
sportsrankings wrote:
I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?


That was then. This is now. Both Columbus and Denver (along with I've forgotten how many other cities) played host to at least two AFL/AFL 2.0 franchises.

When as a league you've abandoned a market once, you probably haven't poisoned its residents about your league to a point where a replacement franchise would automatically fail (e.g., the original Washington Senators being immediately replaced by the expansion version; the Kansas City A's being replaced after a few years absence by the Royals; the Philadelphia Warriors being replaced by the 76'ers).

But when you've abandoned a market twice within a generation's time (e.g., the second Senators franchise bolting for the Dallas area; pro football fans in the St. Louis area right now), potential fans in that market aren't nearly as apt to welcome a new team with open arms and wallets. You have to let a generation pass (as baseball did with Washington) before you can test the viability in that market... to let the prior wounds heal, so to speak.

And if you don't let those wounds heal, you end up with the 2015 Las Vegas Outlaws.
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sportsrankings
 

Joined: 04 Mar 2015
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TargetToad wrote:
mactheknife wrote:
sportsrankings wrote:
I added all the attendance between the AFL and af2, Columbus and Denver were #2 and#3, why do those markets not have a team?


That was then. This is now. Both Columbus and Denver (along with I've forgotten how many other cities) played host to at least two AFL/AFL 2.0 franchises.

When as a league you've abandoned a market once, you probably haven't poisoned its residents about your league to a point where a replacement franchise would automatically fail (e.g., the original Washington Senators being immediately replaced by the expansion version; the Kansas City A's being replaced after a few years absence by the Royals; the Philadelphia Warriors being replaced by the 76'ers).

But when you've abandoned a market twice within a generation's time (e.g., the second Senators franchise bolting for the Dallas area; pro football fans in the St. Louis area right now), potential fans in that market aren't nearly as apt to welcome a new team with open arms and wallets. You have to let a generation pass (as baseball did with Washington) before you can test the viability in that market... to let the prior wounds heal, so to speak.

And if you don't let those wounds heal, you end up with the 2015 Las Vegas Outlaws.
LV and SF have to be the worse minor league cities
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