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WTF is Soto up to?
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ssnapier
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Joined: 28 Jul 2014
Location: Hagerstown, MD
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:31 am    Post subject: WTF is Soto up to? Reply with quote

The reply is hilarious too.




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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, not sure what the 30 year equation is.

$3 million cap is insane.... Hell, some think even a 750k cap is high, but that is probably the max right now.

I know that the talent side always starts high, but ,3m is ridiculous, I am guessing you could start at 1.5m And still end up at the same number at the end of the day.
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
Location: Lutz, FL
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3m? Lolololololololololololololililililolololo
No. 500 is all that's sustainable. It wasn't even 3m during the NBC/ESPN days. Can we get Soto out of there #TT4AFLPU
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And, there's a far more plausible reason Cleveland's gone. Dan Gilbert may be a fool in some respects, but he doesn't suffer greater fools gladly.

"What? Soto's wanting a $3 million cap per team? Screw it, we're done here. I'll announce a two year hiatus, blame it on the arena upgrades, and quietly wind it up."
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gosharks
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Joined: 31 Aug 2010
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

$3M cap? My goodness I think the CFL's cap is approximately $5.3M and the CFL has 46-man rosters (unless it recently changed)?
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Firstnten.net
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Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is something mentally wrong with that guy. Seriously. Someone needs to give him a serious dose of reality.
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billscarnage
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Joined: 27 Jun 2013
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I'd like a toilet seat made of solid gold, but some things ain't gonna happen.
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famicommander
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Joined: 13 Jul 2009
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is the idiot the players want representing them, they deserve to get hosed in these negotiations. 3 million dollars is more than these teams are worth TOTAL, and he wants them to spend that much on salary in a season?

Can you imagine the Denver Broncos spending a billion dollars (or whatever they're worth) on talent for one year?
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AFLNerd36
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Joined: 19 Jun 2016
PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even a cap of $900k is a little high for a 24-man roster... did he not take economics classes?
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TargetToad
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Joined: 31 May 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, comparing Soto to Trump is an insult to Trump. Regardless of your political opinion of Donald, no body is as inept or as stupid as Soto.


Well except for Neville Chamberlain.
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adviserkulikov
 

Joined: 03 Aug 2015
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry, but a direct Salary cap of over $1,000,000 is basically impossible.

The majority of the players in the AFL aren't going to make it into a larger league, and the teams don't have the merchandising and advertising income of a big league to allow for a full year's wages.

$1 Million would allow a team of 30 players to have an average Salary of 33.3K/Year which is respectable for a job that only lasts maybe 6 months with training? 33.3K is enough to survive provided league health insurance is good year round (And should probably cover lingering conditions resulting from play after retirement if it doesn't already).

Until the league can establish itself as a real brand and step out of the shadow of the NFL there's not going to be much it can do revenue wise. It's just not recognized. Target should be to establish itself at a similar level to the AHL/MiLB, where any sports fan will know it exists.
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afdave
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Joined: 01 Jan 2001
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adviserkulikov wrote:
I'm sorry, but a direct Salary cap of over $1,000,000 is basically impossible.

The majority of the players in the AFL aren't going to make it into a larger league, and the teams don't have the merchandising and advertising income of a big league to allow for a full year's wages.

$1 Million would allow a team of 30 players to have an average Salary of 33.3K/Year which is respectable for a job that only lasts maybe 6 months with training? 33.3K is enough to survive provided league health insurance is good year round (And should probably cover lingering conditions resulting from play after retirement if it doesn't already).

Until the league can establish itself as a real brand and step out of the shadow of the NFL there's not going to be much it can do revenue wise. It's just not recognized. Target should be to establish itself at a similar level to the AHL/MiLB, where any sports fan will know it exists.


Indoor football rosters are generally 24 players max (including non-gameday players), and one could argue you could get gameday rosters down to 20 or even 18 players (if you went back to more "ironman" style of play).

So, if 30k is our "average" that we want to aim to... 20*30,000 = $600k. Well short of the $1 million needed.

What I think would be good to land on for the next 3-4 years:
$350k season salary floor, $600k cap, with a minimum per game pay of $1000 (1000 * 16 game season = $16,000) per player, with a $50 hike in the minimum based on years in the AFL for any individual player (so, a 5-year vets minimum is $1,250/gm).


I don't see how starting at "$3 million sounds right" gets anyone to take you seriously to getting to something close to the above, but, whatever.
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spiderfan_MJ
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Joined: 28 Jun 2016
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe I'm crazy but does Soto have some sort of intel on the NAL pay scale? They keep poaching players and coaches from other leagues, and I doubt that NAL players are making 30k a year at this point.

So, maybe Soto (thinking that the AFL is top dog) is under the impression that a 3mil salary cap is actually realistic for the AFL. Just a thought.
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spiderfan_MJ wrote:
Maybe I'm crazy but does Soto have some sort of intel on the NAL pay scale? They keep poaching players and coaches from other leagues, and I doubt that NAL players are making 30k a year at this point.

So, maybe Soto (thinking that the AFL is top dog) is under the impression that a 3mil salary cap is actually realistic for the AFL. Just a thought.


It wouldn't surprise me if Soto had NAL payroll data. It also wouldn't surprise me if he thinks that given the state of the overall sport, he thinks players migrating from the AFL to other leagues actually hurts the AFL from some financial perspective. But believe me, it doesn't.

There was a time when there was a small group of fans who would go specifically to watch a LaFrance, Schexnayder (sorry if I misspelled the name) Garcia or Warner play. But even when those players were gone, fans just shrugged and continued supporting their team right up to the point its owner went broke and sold it to whoever moved the circus to another town.

If Ivan Soto believes AFL players are worthy of $3 million annual salary caps per team, he's vastly overvaluing them vis a vis the real world marketplace. Not to belittle their talents, but indoor football players are a dime a dozen, and there are an awful lot of dimes. The AFL likely has all the player jobs it can fill at a salary of $750, maybe even $1,000 a game per player. But at $2,000, and especially Soto's lunatic math? They'll have none.
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fightclubhubbs
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Joined: 03 Aug 2012
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This man is a whackjob. How does his math even add up in his twisted little world? I think the afl should break from the players union next season just to get rid of this cancer. Maybe once he is out of the picture maybe someone who has some business sense could step up and run a better organized players union.
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adviserkulikov
 

Joined: 03 Aug 2015
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mactheknife wrote:
Not to belittle their talents, but indoor football players are a dime a dozen, and there are an awful lot of dimes. The AFL likely has all the player jobs it can fill at a salary of $750, maybe even $1,000 a game per player. But at $2,000, and especially Soto's lunatic math? They'll have none.


There are so many people who just want to continue living out their college sport as a big part of their life. Lacrosse leagues are basically fueled entirely by this, seeing as there is no upper level to aim for.

I'd be willing to bet that you could field an entire team in major cities with health insurance, food and travel costs alone, no actual pay needed. The skill level would plummet due to lack of competition, but you could definitely fill a roster.
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ArenaFanJersey
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Joined: 23 Mar 2014
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having read the CBA I always thought more of the focus needed to be on re-working the housing, meals, and offseason language with a salary cap around 500-600k but with no floor and no real penalty if you went slightly over. At least no floor/penalty for going over in the beginning.

The max out player you would see in the cap is either Raudabaugh (sorry if misspelled) or Hippeard around 1.75-2k per game though most players would be around 1k.


Soto is insane and that's just it.
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AFL79
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Joined: 16 Jan 2010
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adviserkulikov wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that you could field an entire team in major cities with health insurance, food and travel costs alone, no actual pay needed. The skill level would plummet due to lack of competition, but you could definitely fill a roster.


I've felt this is what they should do, just find former pro and college players who just happen to have regular jobs within the city area, and field teams of high school coaches, real estate agents, insurance agents, car dealers, police officers, lawyers and construction workers who would do it for fun or to use in marketing their real job or business.
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Firstnten.net
Ironman

Joined: 23 Jun 2011
PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

famicommander wrote:
If this is the idiot the players want representing them, they deserve to get hosed in these negotiations. 3 million dollars is more than these teams are worth TOTAL, and he wants them to spend that much on salary in a season?

Can you imagine the Denver Broncos spending a billion dollars (or whatever they're worth) on talent for one year?


Great post!

+ infinity
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mactheknife
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Joined: 03 Feb 2012
Location: Raleigh, NC
PostPosted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AFL79 wrote:
adviserkulikov wrote:

I'd be willing to bet that you could field an entire team in major cities with health insurance, food and travel costs alone, no actual pay needed. The skill level would plummet due to lack of competition, but you could definitely fill a roster.


I've felt this is what they should do, just find former pro and college players who just happen to have regular jobs within the city area, and field teams of high school coaches, real estate agents, insurance agents, car dealers, police officers, lawyers and construction workers who would do it for fun or to use in marketing their real job or business.


That's how the NFL was started a century ago. It's just crazy enough that it might work... Laughing
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